Okay, I am going to ask a stupid question... But... I have friends they look just like the 3 killed and they are not Muslim. Is the assumption that anybody that looks like the 3 killed in NC are Muslim? Aren't most not Muslim?

murder seems pretty hateful as it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This dude's hatred for religion seems pretty abstract to me. The words of a father understandably distraught over what happened notwithstanding, the key takeaway from that otherwise useful article is this passage:

"Randy Tysinger, a spokesman for Ripley Rand, the U.S. attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina which includes Chapel Hill, said federal prosecutors are aware of the allegations the shooting was a hate crime. But Tysinger stressed that the Chapel Hill police investigation is in the early stages and said the federal prosecutor’s office would wait for more details before deciding whether to launch a federal hate crime investigation."

The reason he is saying that is because the standard for a hate crime is so impossibly high. You actually need to say "I'm going to find some xyz and kill them".

That does not mean that it is not an act of religious hate.

Yeah it does. By definition. In this country you have to prove guilt.

Uhhh....the "guilt" is clear. He did it. The "hate crime" question is about motive.

In any event, this guy killed three people with pre-meditation. They were also practicing Muslims. He had a history with these people, including saying things about how the women dressed. The prosecution standards for hate crimes are sky high. But I do not need a prosecutor to tell me that their religion was a factor. In any event, the guy is looking at 3 1st degree murder charges. NC had the death penalty and hopefully that is waht he wil get.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This dude's hatred for religion seems pretty abstract to me. The words of a father understandably distraught over what happened notwithstanding, the key takeaway from that otherwise useful article is this passage:

"Randy Tysinger, a spokesman for Ripley Rand, the U.S. attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina which includes Chapel Hill, said federal prosecutors are aware of the allegations the shooting was a hate crime. But Tysinger stressed that the Chapel Hill police investigation is in the early stages and said the federal prosecutor’s office would wait for more details before deciding whether to launch a federal hate crime investigation."

The reason he is saying that is because the standard for a hate crime is so impossibly high. You actually need to say "I'm going to find some xyz and kill them".

That does not mean that it is not an act of religious hate.

Yeah it does. By definition. In this country you have to prove guilt.

Anonymous wrote:This dude's hatred for religion seems pretty abstract to me. The words of a father understandably distraught over what happened notwithstanding, the key takeaway from that otherwise useful article is this passage:

"Randy Tysinger, a spokesman for Ripley Rand, the U.S. attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina which includes Chapel Hill, said federal prosecutors are aware of the allegations the shooting was a hate crime. But Tysinger stressed that the Chapel Hill police investigation is in the early stages and said the federal prosecutor’s office would wait for more details before deciding whether to launch a federal hate crime investigation."

The reason he is saying that is because the standard for a hate crime is so impossibly high. You actually need to say "I'm going to find some xyz and kill them".

That does not mean that it is not an act of religious hate.

Anonymous wrote:Why have the Christian leader not denounced this?

Because he's an atheist. Uh, duh.

And, again, with due respect to the father, he's not the medical examiner. He doesn't know that it was "execution style."

This dude's hatred for religion seems pretty abstract to me. The words of a father understandably distraught over what happened notwithstanding, the key takeaway from that otherwise useful article is this passage:

"Randy Tysinger, a spokesman for Ripley Rand, the U.S. attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina which includes Chapel Hill, said federal prosecutors are aware of the allegations the shooting was a hate crime. But Tysinger stressed that the Chapel Hill police investigation is in the early stages and said the federal prosecutor’s office would wait for more details before deciding whether to launch a federal hate crime investigation."

From the father of one of the victims:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/11/5508217/victims-father-says-chapel-hill.html#.VNujZ7DF8kR

“It was execution style, a bullet in every head,” Abu-Salha said Wednesday morning. “This was not a dispute over a parking space; this was a hate crime. This man had picked on my daughter and her husband a couple of times before, and he talked with them with his gun in his belt. And they were uncomfortable with him, but they did not know he would go this far.”

Abu-Salha said his daughter who lived next door to Hicks wore a Muslim head scarf and told her family a week ago that she had “a hateful neighbor.”

“Honest to God, she said, ‘He hates us for what we are and how we look,’” he said.


Now, before everyone jumps on me again, let me acknowledge that one can believe they are a victim of prejudice when the perpetrator is acting for other reasons.

I might be a good idea for someone in the administration to denounce it also once a few more facts come out. By and large, people are not buying this "not a hate crime" theory being put forth here. Can't be all on TV expressing sympathy for an American gilr killed in Syria and stay silent about 3 Muslims killed on US soil. Need to put a lid on this before it is used as some rallying cry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the Christian leader not denounced this?

Who is "the Christian leader"?

the shooter was not a Christian! He was a liberal athiest.

Will Bill Maher rail on Atheists now, I wonder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote: I have not said that the killing in Chapel Hill were hate killings.

From page 1: 'I put it in the Political Forum because there are idiots who believe that if a radical anti-religious freak murders three Muslims, it is simply a "sad crime".'

So, yeah, Jeff. You effectively DID say the killings in Chapel Hill are hate killings. Upfront. In fact, your entire thread, from subject line until now, has furthered that storyline. Your backpedalling is unconvincing.

Let's let the police do their work, eh?

Is that what you said about benghazi? Or did you crucify obama over the video?

Has the thread reached the point where we can now open it up to every crime against humanity over the last 50 years? I'd like to know why the moderator didn't start a thread about how Haiti's PM hasn't called elections in 3 years while people are malnourished, that Pakistani woman who converted to Christianity, or about the Argentinian prosecutor who may have been assassinated by his own government. JK

It is reasonable to expect some consistency from conservatives.

If someone is hit over the head on the street by a black man, you call it the knockout game and it's for certain a hate crime despite no statement of motive whatsoever by the criminals. Yet somehow the motive for this crime is a total and complete mystery, despite his numerous public posts about religion.

What are you so defensive about that you cannot admit that people kill muslims out of bigotry? Is it really so painful for that statement to cross your lips?

pp here who took Jeff to task over his embellishments, including reference to execution-style killings at point-blank range:

I'm no conservative. I don't know what would give you the idea I am.

+1. PP who is taking Jeff to task over his double standard on the relative roles of hate crime vs. random elements in Jewish vs. Muslim deaths.

I'm as liberal as they come. I'm not Jewish, either, I'm just fed up with the double standards and facile rationalizations over the last few weeks. Or maybe ... cue creepy music ... Maher and Dawkins have made it safe for liberals to be bigots, like Jeff said. No, that's not it. I will say that we liberals are doing a lot more heavy lifting than you conservatives, who tend to adopt the role of spouting fatuous snark.

Anonymous wrote:Why have the Christian leader not denounced this?

The alleged killer was not Christian but an atheist. Many prominent atheists have denounced the killing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the Christian leader not denounced this?

Who is "the Christian leader"?

the shooter was not a Christian! He was a liberal athiest.

Anonymous wrote:Why have the Christian leader not denounced this?

Who is "the Christian leader"?