Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and sad as it is, I would never encourage my son or daughter (if I had a daughter) to go into teaching. I'm a single parent and I barely scrape by on what I earn. I work a lot for what I earn and I am tired, tired, tired of having to prove that I am not crap everyday. That's how everyone I work with feels. It is a demoralizing profession and I would leave if I could. It certainly isn't a job for someone who is trying to support anyone other than themselves.

This is sad. Teachers deserve better pay. The only happy teachers I know are married to a high earning spouse.

Anonymous wrote:

but I also make 3 times as much as a 20-year teacher. (And I certainly don't work three times as many hours.)

Did you start out making three times as much?

Do you mean, did the PP start out making 3 times as much as a starting teacher?

Anonymous wrote:

and pay well.

Great. Who is going to pay them?

Well, it's your choice. Do you want the teaching workforce, as a whole, to be highly skilled? Then you'll have to pay. But if you would prefer not to pay, then the teaching workforce, as a whole, will not be highly skilled.

I am a teacher and sad as it is, I would never encourage my son or daughter (if I had a daughter) to go into teaching. I'm a single parent and I barely scrape by on what I earn. I work a lot for what I earn and I am tired, tired, tired of having to prove that I am not crap everyday. That's how everyone I work with feels. It is a demoralizing profession and I would leave if I could. It certainly isn't a job for someone who is trying to support anyone other than themselves.

but I also make 3 times as much as a 20-year teacher. (And I certainly don't work three times as many hours.)

Did you start out making three times as much?

There are 180 days in the school year. That is 36 5-day weeks. If you assume that teachers work an extra 20 non-instruction days per year at the school, (which seems high, but may be right) you are at 200 days. If they're working 10-hour days (again, probably a stretch), that's 2000 hours per year. That's a decent clip, especially when there are chunks of time (summer, breaks) when nothing gets done. I know that I work a lot more than that - but I also make 3 times as much as a 20-year teacher. (And I certainly don't work three times as many hours.)

FCPS teachers mostly have a 194 day requirement. That comes out to less than 39 weeks per year.

and pay well.

Great. Who is going to pay them?

Anonymous wrote:Chicken and the egg

1. do we not pay enough because a lot of teachers are mediocre or bad
2. it doesn't pay enough so qualified, good potential teachers don't go into the profession.

I think STEM teachers and those that are willing to teach in low income areas are paid a lot more. But, has the increase in pay attracted more and better teachers in these areas?

Anecdotally, below article would support #1 above:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/08/majority-of-citys-teacher-trainees-flunked-literacy-tests/

It's not chicken-and-egg. It's a refusal on the part of US society to accept that the basic truth that people do stuff for money and prestige applies to teachers. We used to get away with this when the career choices for highly-talented women were limited to the following three low-pay, low-prestige jobs:

1. teacher
2. nurse
3. secretary

Those days are long gone. If you want highly-talented people go to into teaching, make teaching prestigious, and pay well.

Anonymous wrote:

Of course I realize it. But their salaries often reflect the work they put in. This is not the case in teaching. It's taken me 19 years (I took leave and was PT for years.) to make over $100K. That's ridiculous, and it's not typical of many other professions.

Teachers are not going to be paid the big bucks. They work for the government. Go to a ritzy private school. Chances are you would make less there.

no shit, Sherlock

Private school relies on tuition and annual giving to survive.

You must be a genius making 5 times my salary for making such an astute observation.

Chicken and the egg

1. do we not pay enough because a lot of teachers are mediocre or bad
2. it doesn't pay enough so qualified, good potential teachers don't go into the profession.

I think STEM teachers and those that are willing to teach in low income areas are paid a lot more. But, has the increase in pay attracted more and better teachers in these areas?

Anecdotally, below article would support #1 above:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/08/majority-of-citys-teacher-trainees-flunked-literacy-tests/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, once again, teachers work very, very hard--for less than 39 weeks/year.

When I convert 10 months into weeks, I get at least 40 weeks.

Also, the teacher's salary is the teacher's salary -- unless the teacher supplements their income with a second job during winter, spring, and summer vacations. Yes, they get time off during winter, spring, and summer vacations. But time off doesn't pay the bills. The question isn't whether teachers get compensated what they deserve to get compensated, because few people gets compensated what they deserve to get compensated; that's not how compensation works. (If it were how compensation works, CEOs and lobbyists would be a whole lot less rich.) The question is whether the compensation is high enough to attract and retain highly-qualified people. What do you think is the answer to that question?

There are 180 days in the school year. That is 36 5-day weeks. If you assume that teachers work an extra 20 non-instruction days per year at the school, (which seems high, but may be right) you are at 200 days. If they're working 10-hour days (again, probably a stretch), that's 2000 hours per year. That's a decent clip, especially when there are chunks of time (summer, breaks) when nothing gets done. I know that I work a lot more than that - but I also make 3 times as much as a 20-year teacher. (And I certainly don't work three times as many hours.)

And lay off lobbyists.

Anonymous wrote:

Of course I realize it. But their salaries often reflect the work they put in. This is not the case in teaching. It's taken me 19 years (I took leave and was PT for years.) to make over $100K. That's ridiculous, and it's not typical of many other professions.

Teachers are not going to be paid the big bucks. They work for the government. Go to a ritzy private school. Chances are you would make less there.

I don't get it. Public-school teachers don't get paid a lot because they work for the government, but private-school teachers get paid less than public-school teachers. How does that explanation work?

Of course I realize it. But their salaries often reflect the work they put in. This is not the case in teaching. It's taken me 19 years (I took leave and was PT for years.) to make over $100K. That's ridiculous, and it's not typical of many other professions.

Teachers are not going to be paid the big bucks. They work for the government. Go to a ritzy private school. Chances are you would make less there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When I convert 10 months into weeks, I get at least 40 weeks.

Also, the teacher's salary is the teacher's salary -- unless the teacher supplements their income with a second job during winter, spring, and summer vacations. Yes, they get time off during winter, spring, and summer vacations. But time off doesn't pay the bills. The question isn't whether teachers get compensated what they deserve to get compensated, because few people gets compensated what they deserve to get compensated; that's not how compensation works. (If it were how compensation works, CEOs and lobbyists would be a whole lot less rich.) The question is whether the compensation is high enough to attract and retain highly-qualified people. What do you think is the answer to that question?

Hope you are not a math teacher. Please count the days on your contract. You do know that most people do not get Christmas vacation, all federal holidays, and a Spring break?

We're not paid over the summer. I begin work the week before the kids return. We work through mid-June. That leaves 2 weeks of June, all of July, two weeks in August w/o a paycheck. For folks who have been in the system long enough, there's enough to save up for those summer weeks. For new teachers, it becomes difficult. So many take on summer jobs.

And tbh, the hours we work AFTER school ends and on weekends more than makes up for the "free" summers we have. I get home around 4 or after and work to at least 8 pm. On weekends, I plan and grade. not much of a life, especially if you have kids

But yes, my children see me. We only worry about before care (nanny share), and I spend holidays and snow days with them. So while I'm working, I'm around. I sacrifice so that I don't have to place my children in any institutionalized daycare, nor do I have to rely on camps to watch them all summer long.

How many parents can say they see their kids this much?

not many

So that's my "revenge" when folks like you try to demean us.

You do realize that many, many people, at the start of their careers, take on supplemental work, or have roommates, etc, to reduce expenses. And many, many people bring their work home, and don't get paid overtime.

It's not about demeaning; it's about the lack of understanding from teachers that they are doing no more than other people who are making a living. We all make sacrifices.

I think it's great (seriously), that you do what you do to see your kids more. That's my takeaway from this - that you planned well for your own children. I respect that.

Of course I realize it. But their salaries often reflect the work they put in. This is not the case in teaching. It's taken me 19 years (I took leave and was PT for years.) to make over $100K. That's ridiculous, and it's not typical of many other professions.

Furthermore, the work load has only increased from one year to the next. My planning periods are not my own. Just today, I was in an IEP meeting for an hour and a half - and they "released" me midway. We have three meetings a month in addition to parent conferences and "working lunches." So my work comes home with me. I teach the cream of the crop and some of the most struggling children I've ever seen in my entire career - freshmen reading at a 3rd grade level.

So while my salary is OK, it's not enough to attract the best and the brightest. And my children will NEVER enter this profession! The public has no clue, and yet folks are the first to tear us down. What will happen to YOUR kids when all the good teachers leave? Do you know what's left? I can list the young teachers who are savvy with technology but who can't teach a child how to read and write. It's all about the gadgets and looking good!

I worry about our kids b/c they don't have a chance in hell now that teachers have lost all autonomy to do what's best for their students.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we should offer a higher starting salary. What we need is the potential to get a great salary if you excel. Almost EVERY type of job rewards based on merit. There is no reason why we can't do that with teachers. You have a formula...I'm pulling this out of the air, but

5 % test scores
10% teacher ratings
10% student ratings
10% principal observations and interactions with teacher
20% score on competency tests in your area of teaching. Are you truly smarter than a 4th grader? Great, take a test on all the areas 4th graders must master. If you are a math teacher, you take math tests.
10% senior colleague observations of your teacher
10% special education teachers rating you on how well you manage to create an inclusive environment
5% how often you volunteer to take on extra
5% former student and parent ratings of your teaching

and so forth....you get the point. Sure politics may affect some aspects, but it's not as black and white as some people make it out to be. You can find a way to merit pay and give bonuses.

I hear plans like this and wonder what teachers like me (who used to teach kids with severe disabilities--those whose progress is measured in millimeters not miles) are supposed to do to "prove" their worth? And most people who complain about teachers workload would not last 2 days doing the work a teacher in these programs does.