Anonymous
Post 12/06/2014 14:34     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:Homeschool kids score higher on ACT/SAT, get higher grades in college, graduate at a higher percentage , have more college credits prior to freshman year and are more likely to vote and participate in community service as adults.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-homeschoolers-do-well-in-college/


Why wouldn't people who care about their kids homeschool?



+1 The Valedictorian of James Madison University in 2006 was homeschooled until college, as was my sister who just scored a cumulative 35 on her ACT and a perfect score of 36 in Science, which is her passion. When I started private school in 7th grade after being homeschooled, I was afraid that I wouldn't know as much as the other kids, because I usually finished my formal lesson in 2-3 hours. My fears quickly subsided when I found myself consistently scoring at the top of my class. Within a few weeks I had figured out how to integrate socially, and in 9th grade I was elected Class President. My Dad has always been a low-income blue collar worker, so I attribute more of my success to avoiding the boring elementary school years than to genetics. Too many schools zap children of their natural love for learning.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2014 13:51     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
A few years ago I met a dad and son in a line where we were waiting. We struck up a conversation, found out we were from the same area, I asked where the boy, age 8, went to school. They were homeschooling and the dad launched into this bragging session about how bright his son was, regular school couldn't handle him, blah blah, with the kid mostly right there. I basically didn't talk much, he rambled. Until his kid broke into the conversation, looked me straight in the eye, gave this kind of smirk, and said "You're really fat."

He wasn't wrong, I was under medical treatment at the time that caused me to gain weight (which I've since lost entirely). Horrid social awareness for a kid his age, though.

Dad looked a bit embarrassed, at least.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2014 09:10     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I never said they were all my students. I said WE encountered, as a school, hundreds of kids. Our FCPS had over 800 students in it. That is 24 students/year. In the years I taught, WE encountered hundreds of students who were homeschooled and then were mainstreamed in the classrooms. I was part of the discussions of the issues both raised by myself or teammates. For example, when we met as a team to work on placements for the next school year, X-person's issues would be raised by myself, a teacher teaching a child under my grade, or a teacher teaching a child above my grade who had gaps as a result of being homeschooled. We would also discuss it as a team if we were working on our lesson plans and why a particular child was struggling on something. We would discuss it if there was a child advanced in some areas but significantly weaker in others. I was either a party to the conversation or listening if it did not affect my core class or my upcoming core class. I also have many friends from other schools, including those I previously taught with who moved to other schools or those who I went to school with, and they have also expressed the same thing. So in 8 years of teaching, yes, I still stand by the hundreds - probably 200 that I heard about over those years, at least.


Again, your math is suspect. You are making the assumption that 24 brand new homeschooled kids walked into your school every year for those eight years rather than students moving up through the system at a rate of about 4 in each grade. This is also assuming that those entirety of the 3% that we're homeschooling in your school's district have all decided to come back. I have no doubts that you may have complained 200 times about a few homeschooled kids and your are misremembering it.

Schools don't really teach logic and it's well documented that we don't teach teach math well either.


PP, I'm impressed by the conjunction of "I have no doubts that you may have complained 200 times about a few homeschooled kids and your are misremembering it." and "Schools don't really teach logic.", all in one post.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2014 08:39     Subject: Re:Home schooling - please explain this to me
How does college admissions work? I assume every parent gives their kid straight As. Is it just based on sat act scores? Seems unfair.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2014 08:21     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.


I'm questioning either your memory or your math. You met hundreds of homeschooled kids in your school? You do realize that the percentage of homeschooled kids is around 3% of the US, right? You'd have to teach or be near over 6,000 students before you'd have met 200 individual homeschooled kids. Given approx. 25 in a class, you'd have to teach for 240 years.


I never said they were all my students. I said WE encountered, as a school, hundreds of kids. Our FCPS had over 800 students in it. That is 24 students/year. In the years I taught, WE encountered hundreds of students who were homeschooled and then were mainstreamed in the classrooms. I was part of the discussions of the issues both raised by myself or teammates. For example, when we met as a team to work on placements for the next school year, X-person's issues would be raised by myself, a teacher teaching a child under my grade, or a teacher teaching a child above my grade who had gaps as a result of being homeschooled. We would also discuss it as a team if we were working on our lesson plans and why a particular child was struggling on something. We would discuss it if there was a child advanced in some areas but significantly weaker in others. I was either a party to the conversation or listening if it did not affect my core class or my upcoming core class. I also have many friends from other schools, including those I previously taught with who moved to other schools or those who I went to school with, and they have also expressed the same thing. So in 8 years of teaching, yes, I still stand by the hundreds - probably 200 that I heard about over those years, at least.


Again, your math is suspect. You are making the assumption that 24 brand new homeschooled kids walked into your school every year for those eight years rather than students moving up through the system at a rate of about 4 in each grade. This is also assuming that those entirety of the 3% that we're homeschooling in your school's district have all decided to come back. I have no doubts that you may have complained 200 times about a few homeschooled kids and your are misremembering it.

Schools don't really teach logic and it's well documented that we don't teach teach math well either.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 17:27     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.


I'm questioning either your memory or your math. You met hundreds of homeschooled kids in your school? You do realize that the percentage of homeschooled kids is around 3% of the US, right? You'd have to teach or be near over 6,000 students before you'd have met 200 individual homeschooled kids. Given approx. 25 in a class, you'd have to teach for 240 years.


I never said they were all my students. I said WE encountered, as a school, hundreds of kids. Our FCPS had over 800 students in it. That is 24 students/year. In the years I taught, WE encountered hundreds of students who were homeschooled and then were mainstreamed in the classrooms. I was part of the discussions of the issues both raised by myself or teammates. For example, when we met as a team to work on placements for the next school year, X-person's issues would be raised by myself, a teacher teaching a child under my grade, or a teacher teaching a child above my grade who had gaps as a result of being homeschooled. We would also discuss it as a team if we were working on our lesson plans and why a particular child was struggling on something. We would discuss it if there was a child advanced in some areas but significantly weaker in others. I was either a party to the conversation or listening if it did not affect my core class or my upcoming core class. I also have many friends from other schools, including those I previously taught with who moved to other schools or those who I went to school with, and they have also expressed the same thing. So in 8 years of teaching, yes, I still stand by the hundreds - probably 200 that I heard about over those years, at least.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 17:23     Subject: Re:Home schooling - please explain this to me
I love seeing homschooled kids enthusiasm for learning..

Unschooling, on the other hand, is what I have trouble with.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 16:26     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.


I'm questioning either your memory or your math. You met hundreds of homeschooled kids in your school? You do realize that the percentage of homeschooled kids is around 3% of the US, right? You'd have to teach or be near over 6,000 students before you'd have met 200 individual homeschooled kids. Given approx. 25 in a class, you'd have to teach for 240 years.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 15:55     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
I have several friends who home-school.

Two do it because they are living in areas where the public schools are NOT good, and they can't afford private. (think L.A.)

The other does it because, and I quote, "I didn't want to be away from my kids all day. I couldn't stand to let them leave me." So she home-schools her 4 kids. Given that she doesn't believe in evolution and a few other generally accepted scientific principles, I'm a little worried about what her kids are learning. But I keep that opinion to myself.

I also feel sorry for the kids - i don't think they have any friends or social contact outside of their family and church on sundays.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 10:17     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.


But surely there would be gaps under any circumstances, just because the children did not have the specific curriculum that your school used? So children from other schools (public or private), would also have gaps. And if children from your school went to a different school, they would also have gaps. Or maybe those aren't the kind of gaps you're talking about?


No question there were gaps when a child would come from another state or a private school into public. The gaps with the home schooled children were far greater, however. Many home school families do student driven studies. So if a child is interested in American history, they may focus a lot of studies on that. One could see how that could leave out other parts of history, other subjects, etc. Our good friends went from private to public starting in 6th grade because their beloved private school wasn't getting the job done. They had paid a lot of money from k-5th grade and then at the end of 5th grade her daughter took a math exam to see her level and she was at a fourth grade level. The child was considered the at the top of her math class, but for those test results. My friend pulled her daughter out, put her in remedial classes the summer before 6th grade and she then spent the year of 6th getting caught up through 6th grade work.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 09:37     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:

Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.


But surely there would be gaps under any circumstances, just because the children did not have the specific curriculum that your school used? So children from other schools (public or private), would also have gaps. And if children from your school went to a different school, they would also have gaps. Or maybe those aren't the kind of gaps you're talking about?
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 09:25     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can discount the findings however you want, but in the introduction, the author references several other studies that point to off-task behavior being around 25-30%.

When figuring out how much of the day was instructional, I took out time for lunch, recess, and specials, plus transitions, because like I said, most parents do this outside of the 2-3 hours of academic work.

Are you really arguing that 2-3 hours of one on one (or even one to three) instruction is really less than 4-5 hours of instruction with 25 kids, esp. When kids are coming and going to ESOL, Special Education, instrumental music practice, etc?

I've taught in the classroom, homeschooled, and had my child in public and for us it's definitely more efficient homeschooling.

Plus I can teach with a glass of wine.


Im not discounting the findings. Im quoting from her findings that 70% of the kids were on task. Why would you take out time for specials as being non instructive? Thats ridiculous. I'm saying that:

1. You are far underestimating instructional time in school.

2. There are almost always gaps in a home schooled kids learning.


College teacher - my homeschooled kids are my best students. always get As. I send my kids to public school, so this isn't personal. But these kids, at least the ones that end up at my second tier private college, FAR outshine the kids thier traditionally schooled classmates. I mention second-tier because I'm dealing with average kids not the rare super smart kid. I can say with almost 20 years of teaching at two different institution (one an RI research institution), the homeschooled kids that makes it to college will be better prepared for college than their classmates. Also one of my colleages was homeschooled. She went to Sarah Lawrence (I think, or a college like it. Maybe Vassar?) for undergrad.

It is fine not to homeschool (no way I could - plus I love my job). But the kids who are homeschooled will be better than fine.


Perhaps that is the small sampling you are encountering? When I taught elementary school in a variety of different grades, we encountered many home schooled children both in my classes and in the classes of my teammates. I can't remember a single one - ever - who did not have some gaps. I'm guessing this would be hundreds of children that I encountered or my teammates did over the course of a great number of years.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 06:44     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can discount the findings however you want, but in the introduction, the author references several other studies that point to off-task behavior being around 25-30%.

When figuring out how much of the day was instructional, I took out time for lunch, recess, and specials, plus transitions, because like I said, most parents do this outside of the 2-3 hours of academic work.

Are you really arguing that 2-3 hours of one on one (or even one to three) instruction is really less than 4-5 hours of instruction with 25 kids, esp. When kids are coming and going to ESOL, Special Education, instrumental music practice, etc?

I've taught in the classroom, homeschooled, and had my child in public and for us it's definitely more efficient homeschooling.

Plus I can teach with a glass of wine.


Im not discounting the findings. Im quoting from her findings that 70% of the kids were on task. Why would you take out time for specials as being non instructive? Thats ridiculous. I'm saying that:

1. You are far underestimating instructional time in school.

2. There are almost always gaps in a home schooled kids learning.


College teacher - my homeschooled kids are my best students. always get As. I send my kids to public school, so this isn't personal. But these kids, at least the ones that end up at my second tier private college, FAR outshine the kids thier traditionally schooled classmates. I mention second-tier because I'm dealing with average kids not the rare super smart kid. I can say with almost 20 years of teaching at two different institution (one an RI research institution), the homeschooled kids that makes it to college will be better prepared for college than their classmates. Also one of my colleages was homeschooled. She went to Sarah Lawrence (I think, or a college like it. Maybe Vassar?) for undergrad.

It is fine not to homeschool (no way I could - plus I love my job). But the kids who are homeschooled will be better than fine.


How do you know the educational background of all of your students? I don't think it ever came up in conversation with any of my professors.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2014 01:37     Subject: Home schooling - please explain this to me
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can discount the findings however you want, but in the introduction, the author references several other studies that point to off-task behavior being around 25-30%.

When figuring out how much of the day was instructional, I took out time for lunch, recess, and specials, plus transitions, because like I said, most parents do this outside of the 2-3 hours of academic work.

Are you really arguing that 2-3 hours of one on one (or even one to three) instruction is really less than 4-5 hours of instruction with 25 kids, esp. When kids are coming and going to ESOL, Special Education, instrumental music practice, etc?

I've taught in the classroom, homeschooled, and had my child in public and for us it's definitely more efficient homeschooling.

Plus I can teach with a glass of wine.


Im not discounting the findings. Im quoting from her findings that 70% of the kids were on task. Why would you take out time for specials as being non instructive? Thats ridiculous. I'm saying that:

1. You are far underestimating instructional time in school.

2. There are almost always gaps in a home schooled kids learning.


I don't think you are closely reading what I wrote. I took out specials because most homeschooling parents when saying they get their academics done in two hours are not including things like outside music classes, piano practice, gym or playground time, or outside art classes. I took it out for both so we'd be comparing the same items.

There are always gaps in any education. It doesn't matter what kind. I went to a great public high school with a really good science and math program, but I certainly had gaps about world history esp. in regards to non-Western civilizations and the foreign language instruction was a joke.

What a lot of homeschooling parents are trying to teach is ownership for your own education and inquisitiveness about the world.



Not in a, typically, very few hours a day...
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2014 23:25     Subject: Re:Home schooling - please explain this to me
OP here - thanks for your feedback!