Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

Whichever one speaks to you in a way that helps you be kind to others and to yourself. Whichever one makes you feel a spiritual connection to humanity and the universe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost no scholar disputes that Jesus existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

+1. Plus, if this troll is going to argue that Jesus never existed, she needs a plausible counterfactual to explain the multiple Roman and Christian records that appeared within a few decades of his death and resurrection. There is no plausible counterfactual.

Multiple Roman and Christian records within "a few decades" of his death. Please - provide one, just one.

The gospels, Josephus.

Your turn. Who do you claim "made" up this fictional Jesus, the man/divine figure who you think never existed. And why did they bother? Provide one name of a person or group involved in fabricating Jesus out of the blue. Provide one, just one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost no scholar disputes that Jesus existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

+1. Plus, if this troll is going to argue that Jesus never existed, she needs a plausible counterfactual to explain the multiple Roman and Christian records that appeared within a few decades of his death and resurrection. There is no plausible counterfactual.

Multiple Roman and Christian records within "a few decades" of his death. Please - provide one, just one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

but I have met several people now who tell me they are "spiritual" thus trying to sidestep the whole "what's the right answer" dilemma. I respect them; they are seeking answers to the big questions and are settling on a belief system that works for them.

I've never understood this "religion that works for me" thing. So many people refuse to believe in the God of the Bible because He judges people for their sin, and so they perceive Him to be vengeful and angry, even though He also is holy and loving enough to provide His own sacrifice to redeem them. Yet they will then turn around and believe in an unimaginably schizophrenic God, one who has supposedly revealed Himself in so many different, and contradictory ways to so many people of different faiths. If you believe in God at all, then you believe He made the world, and the creation has an incredible order to it. Why would a God like that not have a knowable, consistent and unchanging nature? People find religion that's "right for me" because they want to feel comfortable and not confront their own wickedness. It's definitely not comfortable for me to believe in Hell, the depth of my own sinfulness, and my total inability to save myself by any means. It would be much more comfortable for me to think that God will reward me someday for "trying to be a good person," but I come to Christ because I know this isn't true. I need His forgiveness, and this is what He offers through Christ. Christianity is the only religion built on personal love of God toward His creation, in sending a savior to die for the sins of the world. Every other belief system out there requires us to do something to earn our salvation. Not only does that make more sense, but it's truly the only one that "works" for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.

OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?

Have you heard of Christian humanism? It's taking the good parts of Christianity - kindness, love, compassion, etc as a basis for living, without the supernatural/mythical elements. Jews do it too -- in fact they are more organized at this point -- they have humanistic congregations around the country - one in DC.

I agree with you completely about the Christian humanists. OP isn't a Christian humanist, though--she claimed Jesus "never existed" and then she moved on to "ok, well, um, maybe he existed but he wasn't divine, and wanna talk about the Romans forcing people to be Christian, huh, huh?" only after several posters provided links about his existence. OP has her own reasons for thinking this is amusing, but OP's little game seems like a pointless waste of time for anybody besides OP.

Why don't we talk with actual Christian humanists, instead? At least we'd get past "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah!" Maybe we could get into some points on what Jesus actually said. I'm all for looking into the historical, pre-350AD Jesus. I just think we're all wasting our time on OP's childish games.

It's you, not OP who used the childish "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah" - perhaps reflecting your reaction to disturbing info about evidence for Jesus claims of his divinity. There are scholars in the Jesus seminar who have been working for years to flesh out the human Jesus from the mythical, divine one. Even so, the modern question becomes what to do about Christian belief with a non-supernatural Jesus. Why worship such a person? or any person?

It's the "I've disturbed you, haven't I? Huh, huh?" poster. Such a sad and needy individual....

Actually, thinking more about something that is initially disturbing often results in new learning and intellectual growth. Nothing sad and needy about it.

Careful, your desperation, your need to feel you actually disturbed anybody, is showing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.

OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?

Have you heard of Christian humanism? It's taking the good parts of Christianity - kindness, love, compassion, etc as a basis for living, without the supernatural/mythical elements. Jews do it too -- in fact they are more organized at this point -- they have humanistic congregations around the country - one in DC.

I agree with you completely about the Christian humanists. OP isn't a Christian humanist, though--she claimed Jesus "never existed" and then she moved on to "ok, well, um, maybe he existed but he wasn't divine, and wanna talk about the Romans forcing people to be Christian, huh, huh?" only after several posters provided links about his existence. OP has her own reasons for thinking this is amusing, but OP's little game seems like a pointless waste of time for anybody besides OP.

Why don't we talk with actual Christian humanists, instead? At least we'd get past "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah!" Maybe we could get into some points on what Jesus actually said. I'm all for looking into the historical, pre-350AD Jesus. I just think we're all wasting our time on OP's childish games.

It's you, not OP who used the childish "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah" - perhaps reflecting your reaction to disturbing info about evidence for Jesus claims of his divinity. There are scholars in the Jesus seminar who have been working for years to flesh out the human Jesus from the mythical, divine one. Even so, the modern question becomes what to do about Christian belief with a non-supernatural Jesus. Why worship such a person? or any person?

It's the "I've disturbed you, haven't I? Huh, huh?" poster. Such a sad and needy individual....

Actually, thinking more about something that is initially disturbing often results in new learning and intellectual growth. Nothing sad and needy about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

Jesus: “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:2-3.

So you're quoting Jesus to prove what exactly? That's he's the son of God because he says he's the son of god? That he's right because he says he's right? Circular reasoning.

It's also making a pronouncement, as institutionalized religion is known to do. It a tenet of the faith - not to be questioned, just to be stated and believed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

but I have met several people now who tell me they are "spiritual" thus trying to sidestep the whole "what's the right answer" dilemma. I respect them; they are seeking answers to the big questions and are settling on a belief system that works for them.

maybe they don't care to seek answers to the big questions and simply want to feel comfortable. It might not be a "belief system" but a sense of their place in the universe that provides a sense of well-being. Some call it spiritual, some don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

Jesus: “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:2-3.

So you're quoting Jesus to prove what exactly? That's he's the son of God because he says he's the son of god? That he's right because he says he's right? Circular reasoning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

Jesus: “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:2-3.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

but I have met several people now who tell me they are "spiritual" thus trying to sidestep the whole "what's the right answer" dilemma. I respect them; they are seeking answers to the big questions and are settling on a belief system that works for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

I think that applies to some people, but not most. As for the way things are going, as more people learn about academic (vs sunday school) religion, they are leaving it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.

OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?

Have you heard of Christian humanism? It's taking the good parts of Christianity - kindness, love, compassion, etc as a basis for living, without the supernatural/mythical elements. Jews do it too -- in fact they are more organized at this point -- they have humanistic congregations around the country - one in DC.

I agree with you completely about the Christian humanists. OP isn't a Christian humanist, though--she claimed Jesus "never existed" and then she moved on to "ok, well, um, maybe he existed but he wasn't divine, and wanna talk about the Romans forcing people to be Christian, huh, huh?" only after several posters provided links about his existence. OP has her own reasons for thinking this is amusing, but OP's little game seems like a pointless waste of time for anybody besides OP.

Why don't we talk with actual Christian humanists, instead? At least we'd get past "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah!" Maybe we could get into some points on what Jesus actually said. I'm all for looking into the historical, pre-350AD Jesus. I just think we're all wasting our time on OP's childish games.

It's you, not OP who used the childish "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah" - perhaps reflecting your reaction to disturbing info about evidence for Jesus claims of his divinity. There are scholars in the Jesus seminar who have been working for years to flesh out the human Jesus from the mythical, divine one. Even so, the modern question becomes what to do about Christian belief with a non-supernatural Jesus. Why worship such a person? or any person?

It's the "I've disturbed you, haven't I? Huh, huh?" poster. Such a sad and needy individual....

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????

I think most people today who "believe" don't really care if the tenets of their faith make "sense" or is "right." They believe. That brings them tremendous psychic income and comfort. Thats the way things are going.

OP here. The point if this thread is to question how one religion can be the "right answer" when EVERY religion claims to have truth. Of course, that doesn't necessary mean all of them are wrong but I see similarities in each especially when it comes to evidence (or lack thereof) and faith. Maybe that's a big clue??????