Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand your confusion OP - but why does it matter if your kid gets an ES in first grade? You know your kid is advanced in reading and its not like college admissions offices aren't going to be looking at the elem grades.

OP here. I agree! I'm not looking to make an issue out of this at all, which is why I didn't want to push the issue with the teacher. I'm just trying to understand what it is that DD is NOT doing, that other kids are doing that shows they deserve an ES. Does that make sense? I feel like if she's getting a P, it means she's just 'good enough' at reading. But, other kids who get an ES are obviously doing something better, and I'm wondering what that is.

I say this kindly: Who gives a fuck what other 6 yr olds are doing???!!!

Anonymous wrote:Just to reiterate again. Its possible no one is getting ES grades. At some schools or with some teachers it just doesn't happen. There is sometimes no opportunity to get an ES. I had to teach my son to be happy with a P. Sad, but true.

I believe this to be true. I think that the guidelines for giving an ES are so nebulous that some principals, or certainly teachers, have eliminated the arbitrariness by just not issuing them. At our elementary school the teacher actually told us not to look at the ES as on the top (as it was pictured on the graph) but think of it as something altogether different (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the jist). My kid is in second grade; she is at level P for reading, gets pulled out for William and Mary (a reading program) and is accelerated in math...has never gotten an ES. Obviously she is past being just "proficient" in her grade level material. HOWEVER I am fine with her not getting an ES because I don't want her to focus on that at all. I want her to work hard so she learns, that optimally being the reward in and of itself. I certainly would not want her to have a report card full of ES's at this point. I want her praised for working hard, not for being smart, and I don't want her to think she is working for a grade of any sort right now. She is working to learn, the grades are just to inform parents at this point. Unfortunately she is aware of the ES and has expressed a desire to get an ES which I truly believe may not be possible at her school.

Anonymous wrote:How is getting a P like an getting an A? If a P is the meeting the minimum standard, how is that like getting 100% on anything? If you get a P, you have done the minimum necessary to meet the standards set by MCPS. So if the standard is a student has to know their multiplication tables through the number 5, the kid who stumbles through to 5x12 gets the same grade as the kid who sails through 5x12 and also knows the multiplication tables through the number 10. How does the next year's teacher know who needs help with what if there is so wildly different ability gets the same grade.

A P is not like getting an A. A P is like getting a P. If you can do what you're supposed to be able to do, you get a P. That's why, if you're supposed to know your multiplication facts, and you get 100% on your test of multiplication facts, you get a P -- because you know what you're supposed to know.

As for what teachers know about the student -- maybe teachers base their assessments of their students solely on their students' grades from last year, but I doubt it.

Anonymous wrote:How is getting a P like an getting an A? If a P is the meeting the minimum standard, how is that like getting 100% on anything? If you get a P, you have done the minimum necessary to meet the standards set by MCPS. So if the standard is a student has to know their multiplication tables through the number 5, the kid who stumbles through to 5x12 gets the same grade as the kid who sails through 5x12 and also knows the multiplication tables through the number 10. How does the next year's teacher know who needs help with what if there is so wildly different ability gets the same grade.

If a kid is stumbling through then he would get an I (in progress), not a P. The standards don't dictate how quickly you can multiply 5x5, just that you can do it in a reasonable timeframe, and in the method taught by the teacher. So if one kid can multiply 5x5 in a second, while it takes another kid 3 seconds to do it, they would both get a P.

How is getting a P like an getting an A? If a P is the meeting the minimum standard, how is that like getting 100% on anything? If you get a P, you have done the minimum necessary to meet the standards set by MCPS. So if the standard is a student has to know their multiplication tables through the number 5, the kid who stumbles through to 5x12 gets the same grade as the kid who sails through 5x12 and also knows the multiplication tables through the number 10. How does the next year's teacher know who needs help with what if there is so wildly different ability gets the same grade.

Anonymous wrote:
Meanwhile, I still don't understand how 100% can be a meh.

I think that there are a lot of 'W school' parents here who have a need to validate themselves based on their kids grades. Since a P doesn't set them apart from their neighbors they need to know why.

Anonymous wrote:P is getting over the bar - meeting the minimum standards. So, if I only have to high jump 4ft to get a P, who cares if I, or anyone else, can high jump 7ft? Is anyone going to ask if I can high jump 7ft? Is anyone going to show me how to high jump 5, 6 or 7ft if they don't have to? It's a meh, because it is meeting the minimum, not excelling to top potential.

If you all are satisfied with P, great, but I think it is a cop out. Once a kid gets a P, I do not believe the teacher is going to focus on enriching that child because she'll need to focus on moving the Ns to Is and Is to Ps for the other 28 kids in the class.

You are mixing two arguments.

Argument #1 -- if you can get a P for high-jumping 4 feet, who cares if you can high-jump 7 feet? Well, you might care. And if you don't care, why don't you care?

Argument #2 -- if you have a P, and the other kids in the class do not yet have a P, will the teacher focus on your improvement or on the other kids' improvement? I think the answer depends on what the teacher gets judged on. If the teacher gets judged on how many kids in the class get a P, then the teacher will focus on getting as many kids as possible to a P. If the teacher gets judged on each kid's improvement between the beginning of the year and the end of the year, then the teacher will focus on improvement for each kid, regardless of P/I/N.

Meanwhile, I still don't understand how 100% can be a meh.

P is getting over the bar - meeting the minimum standards. So, if I only have to high jump 4ft to get a P, who cares if I, or anyone else, can high jump 7ft? Is anyone going to ask if I can high jump 7ft? Is anyone going to show me how to high jump 5, 6 or 7ft if they don't have to? It's a meh, because it is meeting the minimum, not excelling to top potential.

If you all are satisfied with P, great, but I think it is a cop out. Once a kid gets a P, I do not believe the teacher is going to focus on enriching that child because she'll need to focus on moving the Ns to Is and Is to Ps for the other 28 kids in the class.

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid, I wanted the highest score. If the highest score is just "meh" performance, that's what I would have done. We have gone from giving everyone a ribbon to giving no one a ribbon. Or maybe "P" is the way everyone gets a ribbon, and all the ribbons are the same color.

I don't know why you think that P = "meh".

When I was a kid, I wanted the highest score. If the highest score is just "meh" performance, that's what I would have done. We have gone from giving everyone a ribbon to giving no one a ribbon. Or maybe "P" is the way everyone gets a ribbon, and all the ribbons are the same color.

Anonymous wrote:It's all too subjective for me. P seems to lump in any kids that in the old world would have had a C or above. Some of us would like our kids to know how good it feels to excel and be recognized for it, like a good old fashioned A. The fact that an ES is a unicorn makes it impossible for our kids to feel like they excelled. Instead, a P means you just made it over the bar. When you have a lazy, smart kid, that means she does just enough to get over the bar and no more because there is nothing else to earn, when an ES is a unicorn. If you can never get one, why bother trying any harder than it takes to get a P?

If you have a lazy, smart kid, that's the issue, not the grading system. A kid who is motivated by grades is not a lazy kid, basically by definition.

Anonymous wrote:
PP here. BTW, giving out only Ps means that the achievement gap is lessened, because all the Ps can counteract the Ns. Just saying that this ridiculous grading system seems politically driven.

No, it doesn't, because MCPS does not use elementary school grades to measure the achievement gap.

Anonymous wrote:It's all too subjective for me. P seems to lump in any kids that in the old world would have had a C or above. Some of us would like our kids to know how good it feels to excel and be recognized for it, like a good old fashioned A. The fact that an ES is a unicorn makes it impossible for our kids to feel like they excelled. Instead, a P means you just made it over the bar. When you have a lazy, smart kid, that means she does just enough to get over the bar and no more because there is nothing else to earn, when an ES is a unicorn. If you can never get one, why bother trying any harder than it takes to get a P?

PP here. BTW, giving out only Ps means that the achievement gap is lessened, because all the Ps can counteract the Ns. Just saying that this ridiculous grading system seems politically driven.

It's all too subjective for me. P seems to lump in any kids that in the old world would have had a C or above. Some of us would like our kids to know how good it feels to excel and be recognized for it, like a good old fashioned A. The fact that an ES is a unicorn makes it impossible for our kids to feel like they excelled. Instead, a P means you just made it over the bar. When you have a lazy, smart kid, that means she does just enough to get over the bar and no more because there is nothing else to earn, when an ES is a unicorn. If you can never get one, why bother trying any harder than it takes to get a P?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids gets ES's on almost everything, on the report card and in the classroom. It's a real thing, and given the work I can understand the grades. DC is in 4th grade, but has consistently gotten these grades the past two years. My third grader gets P's and I's and no ES's, and it also makes sense given the work.

FWIW, the only grade I really comment on or worry about is the I's. I agree with a pp that these are concrete feedback and give you areas to focus on with DC.

So is your DC in the HGC and, if so, is he or she still receiving almost all ESs?

DC was waitlisted, so no. But DC has been well-served by home school (individual enrichment and compacted math, etc.) so it has been fine to stay in place.

It seems like your child would have been better served at an HGC bc the standard are much higher.