Anonymous wrote:You can fix the emotional needs by talking and counseling, you can un cheat. Besides abise, Most unhappy marriages are the result of women going mental and later snapping out of it

Can't un cheat

You can fix the emotional needs by talking and counseling, you can un cheat. Besides abise, Most unhappy marriages are the result of women going mental and later snapping out of it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make to excuses instead of accepting responsibility. Men are like, not enough sex at home my bad I am wrong. Men move on women don't so it's easier to savage a relationship after male infidelity.

True most of the time. Women cheat for more emotional needs, men cheat for physical ones. Usually.

-wife

So women actually think the man they are banging really cares about them and isn't faking it to bust a nut? That would only make sense if the wife cheated with a another woman or a gay guy.

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, what's fascinating about this thread, is more of the level of "understanding."

This same thread, if the cheating gender was male, would be all about how he's a piece if shit, regardless of the SAME reasons being used to cheat.

I'm not here to start a gender war. There are plenty of threads for that. Let's just ADMIT, finally, that women are motivated to cheat for the same reasons as men, and there's no 60-40 split to it, either. Women are just as bad.

I'm the PP who cheated and left. I actually do not buy the gender differences either. I think that people are unhappy in marriages for a lot of reasons. For me, it was not like I was a serial cheater addicted to sex or the chase or whatever serial cheaters are into. I think that it's a lot more socially acceptable for men to be serial cheaters in that way - meet women at bars, frequent escort services, have inappropriate relationships with interns. I think it's a lot less socially acceptable for women to behave in the same way.

There is a special degree of condemnation for women who cheat that men do not get - unfairly, I think, because it's just assumed that "that's what men do". There's another thread about how a cheated on wife wants to call up the "skank" her husband cheated with who is now pregnant and tell her she's going to be a bad mom. I do not see anywhere near the same vitriole for the husband who cheated on his pregnant wife, or the condemnations of his parenting caliber.

I think that when we expend energy trying to come up with the differences between men and women, we overlook the ways in which all PEOPLE are similar. The things that all PEOPLE want out of their lives and the ways in which all PEOPLE can hurt other people.

Men and women ARE different, thank goodness. A woman is penetrated, a man is not. A woman can have multiple orgasms, but it is more difficult for her to have one than a man. A man is judged much more critically on bedroom skills than a woman ever is - just read the threads in DCUM. Also, a woman can have sex whenever she wants, a man cannot unless he sometimes wants to pay for it. It has been that way since the Romans.

I'm a woman, and I can't have sex whenever I want. I'm married.

You could walk into an upscale lounge and leave with someone any night you wanted.

That's ridiculous. No, I couldn't any more than you could. I'm of average attractiveness and average weight (yeah, i had kids). Sure, a really attractive woman can do that, but so can a really attractive man.

You are wrong, of course. A man can dress up and hit the lounge, bar, etc. He'll probably strike out. You, of "average attractiveness," could put on a skirt, heels, and men will salivate. Simple truth.

No, simple conjecture. Based on nothing other than your biases.

PP is correct: if you are half-way good looking, a guy would do you in a heart-beat. Even if you were less than half-way good looking some men would do you especially after a couple of drinks. It is how most men are wired.

I know this is the popular view, and I have to admit, it's a nice thought, but I don't actually buy it. I've never been randomly "hit on" by a stranger since college. And like I said, I'm "average" attractiveness. (Probably a little above average, but not sure anymore pushing 40.) Now, I don't spend a ton of time alone in bars (and there are good and unfair reasons why that's not an awesome idea for women to do). But I'm out in the world, at an office with men, meeting up after work sometimes. I mean, I wait in a bar or restaurant for my DH a fair amount of the time. So if guys are just "salivating" over all the halfway attractive women, how come nothing? I don't want it, not looking for it, but I don't buy the theory. I buy that men will salivate over any very attractive women. But I think they're just bitter that women who are much more attractive than they are aren't taking them up on it. They want nothing to do with the rest.

You low self-esteem women believe you have the same chances as men at getting laid. Unless you're a cow (and that still may not matter), you dress up and men will come after you. We love skirts, heels, and generally form-fitting outfits on women, even if they have a bit of extra meat on them.

I'm the OP and I hope that this thread can get back to it's original intention.

Anonymous wrote:In fact, they did a survey of why men visit high priced call girls. One if the reason is because they simply want someone to talk to.

And you believe this? See how many clients a high priced call girl would get if she said that she charges $500 but there will be no sex.

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Anonymous wrote:All the men who cheat get a pass on their cheating .......... it is just a matter of saying nicely the reason you cheated.

I will keep that in mind.

I'm one of the PPs on this thread. I understand that you're being sarcastic, but yes, I think it does make a difference when you say things nicely. There is a difference between saying "My spouse did X and Y that made me unhappy and I dealt with my unhappiness in Z way" and "My spouse is a bitch/asshole".

If you have an issue with the original post, that's your issue. People were responding to the request to share the story. If the story began and ended with "I cheated on my husband" there would be little point in sharing. I don't know why the OP wanted to know what people's stories were. Maybe the OP is married to a cheater and is trying to understand what affairs look like from the other side.

I think in conversations about cheating, regardless of gender, things get distilled to the point of being useless soundbytes. People and relationships are always more complex than they are given credit for. There are always multiple sides to a given story. Everyone has a perspective that is valid, even if you find it distasteful.

I accept the sincerity of your response but I have no doubt that if a guy said he cheated because of xyz reason, no matter how nicely he couched it, on this forum, he'd be hanged, drawn and quartered and many women would have his guts for garters after his testicles were crushed to smithereens.

PP here. You're generalizing, and I think that's what is getting lost. It's not "men who cheat" or "women who cheat" or even "cheaters of both sexes." It's individual people, who have individual stories and complexities. My story is not exactly the same as anyone else's. To detail the things that happened in my life that influenced the decisions that I made is not to excuse those decisions. It's not to blame those decisions on factors outside my control.

That said, when threads of this nature come up, as has happened from time to time since I found this site in 2009, I haven't been one of the ones with the pitchforks out for the head of the "skank" and the "dick" and whatever else we call the participants in the affair. I feel sorry for everyone in the situation - even more so now having gone through it myself. It's not easy for anyone. I think that it would be be helpful if there was more recognition of the guilt and shame that a person who has an affair feels, rather than automatic total condemnation of that person as a "sack of shit" or whatever else people on this thread have called me.

Now, I'm sure there are more than a few people whose moral compasses dictate that a person who is unfaithful to their spouse CANNOT be a good person in other ways. That sinners and sins are interchangeable and inseparable. I am not one of those people. I can listen while a friend confides that she's leaving her husband after having an affair, or that she had a secret affair years ago and never told anyone (both those things have happened in the last year), and she does not move in my mental rolodex from the "Good Person" to "Bad Person" categories. The friendship is not instantly over at that moment and I don't feel like I need to call that friend horrible names or make assumptions about what kind of parent she is.

In the aftermath of my affair, one thing that I found very valuable was the conversations I had with several friends who really just wanted to know why - sort of in the same tone as this thread. They did not understand why I would leave a marriage they thought was very good. What I learned from that is that almost no one has any real insight into the quality of a marriage. I was unhappy in a miserable, all consuming way, and I was certain that everyone could tell. They had no idea. They thought our marriage was perfect. My now-ex-husband thought our marriage was in trouble, but he didn't know how unhappy I was and didn't take that unhappiness seriously. I think that right up until the point that I told him I was leaving, that I was not going to change my mind (because he wanted to work things out when I first told him), he truly believed it would blow over. That it was a hiccup in an otherwise good marriage brought on by stress or whatever.

I try to apply these things to my participation on this forum. I understand that not everyone does that. But I think that the way that people talk about things makes a difference. It humanizes us in what is otherwise an anonymous place. I will continue to do that, regardless of whether anyone else does, if only because it is the right thing to do.

In fact, they did a survey of why men visit high priced call girls. One if the reason is because they simply want someone to talk to.

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, what's fascinating about this thread, is more of the level of "understanding."

This same thread, if the cheating gender was male, would be all about how he's a piece if shit, regardless of the SAME reasons being used to cheat.

I'm not here to start a gender war. There are plenty of threads for that. Let's just ADMIT, finally, that women are motivated to cheat for the same reasons as men, and there's no 60-40 split to it, either. Women are just as bad.

I'm the PP who cheated and left. I actually do not buy the gender differences either. I think that people are unhappy in marriages for a lot of reasons. For me, it was not like I was a serial cheater addicted to sex or the chase or whatever serial cheaters are into. I think that it's a lot more socially acceptable for men to be serial cheaters in that way - meet women at bars, frequent escort services, have inappropriate relationships with interns. I think it's a lot less socially acceptable for women to behave in the same way.

There is a special degree of condemnation for women who cheat that men do not get - unfairly, I think, because it's just assumed that "that's what men do". There's another thread about how a cheated on wife wants to call up the "skank" her husband cheated with who is now pregnant and tell her she's going to be a bad mom. I do not see anywhere near the same vitriole for the husband who cheated on his pregnant wife, or the condemnations of his parenting caliber.

I think that when we expend energy trying to come up with the differences between men and women, we overlook the ways in which all PEOPLE are similar. The things that all PEOPLE want out of their lives and the ways in which all PEOPLE can hurt other people.

Men and women ARE different, thank goodness. A woman is penetrated, a man is not. A woman can have multiple orgasms, but it is more difficult for her to have one than a man. A man is judged much more critically on bedroom skills than a woman ever is - just read the threads in DCUM. Also, a woman can have sex whenever she wants, a man cannot unless he sometimes wants to pay for it. It has been that way since the Romans.

I'm a woman, and I can't have sex whenever I want. I'm married.

You could walk into an upscale lounge and leave with someone any night you wanted.

That's ridiculous. No, I couldn't any more than you could. I'm of average attractiveness and average weight (yeah, i had kids). Sure, a really attractive woman can do that, but so can a really attractive man.

You are wrong, of course. A man can dress up and hit the lounge, bar, etc. He'll probably strike out. You, of "average attractiveness," could put on a skirt, heels, and men will salivate. Simple truth.

No, simple conjecture. Based on nothing other than your biases.

PP is correct: if you are half-way good looking, a guy would do you in a heart-beat. Even if you were less than half-way good looking some men would do you especially after a couple of drinks. It is how most men are wired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make to excuses instead of accepting responsibility. Men are like, not enough sex at home my bad I am wrong. Men move on women don't so it's easier to savage a relationship after male infidelity.

True most of the time. Women cheat for more emotional needs, men cheat for physical ones. Usually.

-wife

This is so completely wrong. Maybe obnoxious men cheat for physical reasons, but the other 99.9% do it because they feel unvalued and lack meaningful intimacy in their relationship. Unless by "usually" you mean a fraction of 1%.

This is a huge misunderstanding by women about male infidelity - that men are solely driven by the need for physical gratification. By adhering to this vision, you're failing to appreciate the depth and complexity of what a grown man needs from a relationship - to your own peril.

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, what's fascinating about this thread, is more of the level of "understanding."

This same thread, if the cheating gender was male, would be all about how he's a piece if shit, regardless of the SAME reasons being used to cheat.

I'm not here to start a gender war. There are plenty of threads for that. Let's just ADMIT, finally, that women are motivated to cheat for the same reasons as men, and there's no 60-40 split to it, either. Women are just as bad.

I'm the PP who cheated and left. I actually do not buy the gender differences either. I think that people are unhappy in marriages for a lot of reasons. For me, it was not like I was a serial cheater addicted to sex or the chase or whatever serial cheaters are into. I think that it's a lot more socially acceptable for men to be serial cheaters in that way - meet women at bars, frequent escort services, have inappropriate relationships with interns. I think it's a lot less socially acceptable for women to behave in the same way.

There is a special degree of condemnation for women who cheat that men do not get - unfairly, I think, because it's just assumed that "that's what men do". There's another thread about how a cheated on wife wants to call up the "skank" her husband cheated with who is now pregnant and tell her she's going to be a bad mom. I do not see anywhere near the same vitriole for the husband who cheated on his pregnant wife, or the condemnations of his parenting caliber.

I think that when we expend energy trying to come up with the differences between men and women, we overlook the ways in which all PEOPLE are similar. The things that all PEOPLE want out of their lives and the ways in which all PEOPLE can hurt other people.

Men and women ARE different, thank goodness. A woman is penetrated, a man is not. A woman can have multiple orgasms, but it is more difficult for her to have one than a man. A man is judged much more critically on bedroom skills than a woman ever is - just read the threads in DCUM. Also, a woman can have sex whenever she wants, a man cannot unless he sometimes wants to pay for it. It has been that way since the Romans.

I'm a woman, and I can't have sex whenever I want. I'm married.

You could walk into an upscale lounge and leave with someone any night you wanted.

That's ridiculous. No, I couldn't any more than you could. I'm of average attractiveness and average weight (yeah, i had kids). Sure, a really attractive woman can do that, but so can a really attractive man.

You are wrong, of course. A man can dress up and hit the lounge, bar, etc. He'll probably strike out. You, of "average attractiveness," could put on a skirt, heels, and men will salivate. Simple truth.

No, simple conjecture. Based on nothing other than your biases.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, what's fascinating about this thread, is more of the level of "understanding."

This same thread, if the cheating gender was male, would be all about how he's a piece if shit, regardless of the SAME reasons being used to cheat.

I'm not here to start a gender war. There are plenty of threads for that. Let's just ADMIT, finally, that women are motivated to cheat for the same reasons as men, and there's no 60-40 split to it, either. Women are just as bad.

I'm the PP who cheated and left. I actually do not buy the gender differences either. I think that people are unhappy in marriages for a lot of reasons. For me, it was not like I was a serial cheater addicted to sex or the chase or whatever serial cheaters are into. I think that it's a lot more socially acceptable for men to be serial cheaters in that way - meet women at bars, frequent escort services, have inappropriate relationships with interns. I think it's a lot less socially acceptable for women to behave in the same way.

There is a special degree of condemnation for women who cheat that men do not get - unfairly, I think, because it's just assumed that "that's what men do". There's another thread about how a cheated on wife wants to call up the "skank" her husband cheated with who is now pregnant and tell her she's going to be a bad mom. I do not see anywhere near the same vitriole for the husband who cheated on his pregnant wife, or the condemnations of his parenting caliber.

I think that when we expend energy trying to come up with the differences between men and women, we overlook the ways in which all PEOPLE are similar. The things that all PEOPLE want out of their lives and the ways in which all PEOPLE can hurt other people.

Men and women ARE different, thank goodness. A woman is penetrated, a man is not. A woman can have multiple orgasms, but it is more difficult for her to have one than a man. A man is judged much more critically on bedroom skills than a woman ever is - just read the threads in DCUM. Also, a woman can have sex whenever she wants, a man cannot unless he sometimes wants to pay for it. It has been that way since the Romans.

I'm a woman, and I can't have sex whenever I want. I'm married.

You could walk into an upscale lounge and leave with someone any night you wanted.

That's ridiculous. No, I couldn't any more than you could. I'm of average attractiveness and average weight (yeah, i had kids). Sure, a really attractive woman can do that, but so can a really attractive man.

You are wrong, of course. A man can dress up and hit the lounge, bar, etc. He'll probably strike out. You, of "average attractiveness," could put on a skirt, heels, and men will salivate. Simple truth.

Anonymous wrote:NP. I was in the beginning of a depression and my biggest emotion was anger. DH quickly became very impatient with me, and made a few jerky moves. Note that I very rarely get depressed-- twice in my 20s, once in my 30s, and it is always situational-- not a major depressive episode. But I still felt unsupported and very alone.

Was unfairly blaming DH for all the difficult transitions we were going through. Met a SAHD. Sounds pathetic, but at least he was fit and had a great sense of humor. We totally used each other-- he with his very transparent plan in place for the affair, and me looking for a place to shelve my anger for a couple hours of the day. So depressed other times that I didn't care. It ended with a clean break. No illusions here; it was what it was.

I totally understand; I would have done the very same thing. We count on a partner at a time of need.

NP. I was in the beginning of a depression and my biggest emotion was anger. DH quickly became very impatient with me, and made a few jerky moves. Note that I very rarely get depressed-- twice in my 20s, once in my 30s, and it is always situational-- not a major depressive episode. But I still felt unsupported and very alone.

Was unfairly blaming DH for all the difficult transitions we were going through. Met a SAHD. Sounds pathetic, but at least he was fit and had a great sense of humor. We totally used each other-- he with his very transparent plan in place for the affair, and me looking for a place to shelve my anger for a couple hours of the day. So depressed other times that I didn't care. It ended with a clean break. No illusions here; it was what it was.