Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion."

FWIW - we use meds not because of my son's behavior issues associated with the ADHD, but because he's also dyslexic, and he can't focus enough to read without them. I do, in fact, have data points that shows the difference in his performance with and without meds.

Similarly, my son's writing is pretty much illegible off meds and, although far from perfect, much, much improved when on.

Are you seriously noting your child's improved handwriting as evidence that meds work?

For the billionth time, meds will show an increase in the ability to sustain attention on repetitive tasks (school work). This is a temporary effect, lasting only a few years. Stimulant meds will do this for ANYONE, you don't need to have adhd. It's why college students routinely abuse them to help them study for tests. They are not "fixing" any brain imbalances in the adhd child.

Multiple posters on this thread are claiming OP is in denial, that her son is headed for a lifetime of academic failure and horrible self esteem. This simply isn't true. A child with adhd is at risk for academic failure and low self esteem. That is a fact. They are different in a way that makes it difficult for them to function within the framework of our society. But medication does not change this reality. It may improve their focus and behavior in a temporary way, but it will not last. They cannot maintain themselves on medicine for long periods of time. Meds are only a temporary reprieve from symptoms, as a previous poster is experiencing with her second grader.

There is no cure for ADHD. Thats not news, we all know that. But there is a treatment. And, yes, the treatment only works while taking it. but during that "temporary" period of time kids go to school, learn, develop social relationships, function. And when you master those skills in 5th grade you are better placed to continue them in 6th, and then 7th and then so on. If you lose 5th grade because you can't focus, read, write (don't minimize dysgraphia, my DS has it and it affects everything, including math), you will start 6th grade at a deficit (academically, socially, behaviorally) and over the years that deficit will grow.

There's no cure for deafness, but kids can get cochlear implants that allow them to hear. It isn't a cure, if the implants are removed or off, the deafness returns. Its similar.

Anonymous wrote:PP Has your son been able to maintain the same dose?

No. We lowered the dose recently. As he entered adolescence, he started having side effects (mainly irritability) and we found that lowering the dose did the trick.

To the rational beings out there, any thoughts on Cogmed or other neurofeedback therapies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion."

FWIW - we use meds not because of my son's behavior issues associated with the ADHD, but because he's also dyslexic, and he can't focus enough to read without them. I do, in fact, have data points that shows the difference in his performance with and without meds.

Similarly, my son's writing is pretty much illegible off meds and, although far from perfect, much, much improved when on.

Are you seriously noting your child's improved handwriting as evidence that meds work?

For the billionth time, meds will show an increase in the ability to sustain attention on repetitive tasks (school work). This is a temporary effect, lasting only a few years. Stimulant meds will do this for ANYONE, you don't need to have adhd. It's why college students routinely abuse them to help them study for tests. They are not "fixing" any brain imbalances in the adhd child.

Multiple posters on this thread are claiming OP is in denial, that her son is headed for a lifetime of academic failure and horrible self esteem. This simply isn't true. A child with adhd is at risk for academic failure and low self esteem. That is a fact. They are different in a way that makes it difficult for them to function within the framework of our society. But medication does not change this reality. It may improve their focus and behavior in a temporary way, but it will not last. They cannot maintain themselves on medicine for long periods of time. Meds are only a temporary reprieve from symptoms, as a previous poster is experiencing with her second grader.

I don't think I've read anyone claiming that meds "fix" the ADHD, just that it is helping them now attend to tasks and absorb material that otherwise would be lost without meds, and as a result, keeping friendships and self esteem intact. In many cases, the brain eventually matures and catches up to the point that some kids don't need meds anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion."

FWIW - we use meds not because of my son's behavior issues associated with the ADHD, but because he's also dyslexic, and he can't focus enough to read without them. I do, in fact, have data points that shows the difference in his performance with and without meds.

Similarly, my son's writing is pretty much illegible off meds and, although far from perfect, much, much improved when on.

Are you seriously noting your child's improved handwriting as evidence that meds work?

For the billionth time, meds will show an increase in the ability to sustain attention on repetitive tasks (school work). This is a temporary effect, lasting only a few years. Stimulant meds will do this for ANYONE, you don't need to have adhd. It's why college students routinely abuse them to help them study for tests. They are not "fixing" any brain imbalances in the adhd child.

Multiple posters on this thread are claiming OP is in denial, that her son is headed for a lifetime of academic failure and horrible self esteem. This simply isn't true. A child with adhd is at risk for academic failure and low self esteem. That is a fact. They are different in a way that makes it difficult for them to function within the framework of our society. But medication does not change this reality. It may improve their focus and behavior in a temporary way, but it will not last. They cannot maintain themselves on medicine for long periods of time. Meds are only a temporary reprieve from symptoms, as a previous poster is experiencing with her second grader.

Anonymous wrote:"Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion."

FWIW - we use meds not because of my son's behavior issues associated with the ADHD, but because he's also dyslexic, and he can't focus enough to read without them. I do, in fact, have data points that shows the difference in his performance with and without meds.

Similarly, my son's writing is pretty much illegible off meds and, although far from perfect, much, much improved when on.

"Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion."

FWIW - we use meds not because of my son's behavior issues associated with the ADHD, but because he's also dyslexic, and he can't focus enough to read without them. I do, in fact, have data points that shows the difference in his performance with and without meds.

I would add to the idea that grades are not the only or even most important outcome. My DD was just happier when she could focus. before she would come home from school and have massive meltdowns, every day, because she was working so hard to keep it together. I resisted medication for a long time -- I think we all do -- but when we finally did it, the meltdowns stopped. How is this not improvement?

Specifically for OP, her DS' self-esteem is dropping. the kids won't play with him. The teachers think he's bad. I don't know if there's any way to measure these things or of there are any studies, but if a medication could treat it, how is that no worth it?

I agree that each of us makes decisions based on our kids. My problem is with the ideological opponents of meds who twist the studies and arguments to justify their position. We all struggle with these issues (well, not all. I don't think OP is). But when you use some kind of bias against meds to keep your DC from getting medical treatment, I think thats a problem.

PP Has your son been able to maintain the same dose?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

And there you go, OP. This is what the defense of your approach leads to. You are a doctor, so you know the absurdity of saying medication has no effect on outcome. You have observed yourself how the kids receiving medication are better able to attend to their classes.

Medication doesn't have a long term effect outcome. It provides a short-term solution while you wait for the brain to mature.

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/adhd-drugs-no-long-term-benefits.html

Any medication, whether short term or long term, has no effect on long term outcomes.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2009/short-term-intensive-treatment-not-likely-to-improve-long-term-outcomes-for-children-with-adhd.shtml

This was not a randomized study and is highly controversial. Initially, the kids were randomly assigned but then the families were allowed to do what they wanted so the results are not randomized. Its worthless.

Exactly. I've read extensively about this issue and have talked to multiple medical professionals in the field, and the only conclusion I can come to is that the jury is still out with regard to the long term outcomes for children who take these medications. First, there is no properly controlled study that addresses this issue. Second, the studies that do exist seem to have conflicting outcomes. For example, there is a Norwegian study that found that ADHD adults who took medication as children had much higher employment rates than their unmedicated counterparts. I think there was also a Mayo Clinic study finding a positive correlation between medication and grades. But those studies too have flaws, so I'm not relying on them. Moreover, I think that measuring outcomes based purely on academic achievement (which is what the MTA study looked at) is not the right way of looking at outcomes. Just as an example, my child's grades did not improve significantly with meds because he already had great grades -- in fact, they actually dipped a little. However, it took him 4 times as long to do his homework without meds, and now he does it in a normal amount of time. I consider that a major positive outcome, but that kind of thing is not measured. Moreover, truth to tell, I fully admit that before he was on meds I did a lot of his homework for him because at 10PM with a weeping, exhausted kid, it just seemed the only choice. I was also constantly in contact with his teacher asking for extensions, lowered work requirements, etc. Now he does his own work and sometimes I know he gets WORSE grades but guess what, he earned the grade fair and square and his work work was 100% his. I was so proud the day he brought home a C on one of his notebooks, because he had fully done the work himself with no prompting or assistance from me. That was huge. Before, he may have gotten an A, but if I hadn't been involved every step of the way he simply would have done nothing and failed the project.

I do think that the studies showing the long term safety of the ritalin family of drugs are much better supported and more convincing, although if something came along that strongly indicated otherwise I'm certainly open to revisiting the issue.

Based on the information currently available, I can only proceed with the understanding that these medications are helping my child immensely RIGHT NOW, my reasonable assumption that setting a good foundation now can only be positive in the future, and the data showing that these drugs (which have been on the market for over 40 years) are safe.

Please everyone, call a truce! There is no one right answer! We are all struggling with the same issues and really, none of us knows how things are going to turn out. We just do the best we can for OUR kids. When we make the argument that medication is evil or doesn’t help, the take away message is that parents that choose medication are doing the wrong thing. When we argue the opposite, that medication is the only thing that works and any child who doesn’t use medication will have a lifetime of suffering, we are being just as insulting. Please, rather than arguing we should be supporting each other and not trying to make our own decisions the “correct” decisions by criticizing others’ decisions.

Anonymous wrote:Or at least it seems that way. So he is a stand out and the teachers can't stand it. He is ADD and his symptoms are typical.
Is this like steroids and sports? That is, if you aren't taking them and everyone else is, you'll never win?

Don't be proud of this. You are cheating your DS and it will have life long effects. Right now, he is missing out on learning. Not just classroom learning but social learning. He has already missed out on so much and will continue to miss out on even more. He will find it harder and harder and harder to figure out how to do academic work and how to fit in socially. He will see that he isn't like the other kids. He will try really hard and want to do well academically and socially but can't. Even when he manages to get it together for a brief period, he will be so overwhelmed by what he doesn't know and can't figure out that he will quickly lose focus. He will want help but won't be able to formulate why he thinks he needs help or what will help. He will try and reach out for help, fail to explain himself like he wants to and then stop asking for help. Depression and anxiety will grow in the teen years. I am an ADD adult who missed out on so much of my childhood and young adult life. I wish that ADD had been recongnized when I was a child. I wish my parents had medicated me. I can't even image today all of the opportunities I missed out on. It really, truly sucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

And there you go, OP. This is what the defense of your approach leads to. You are a doctor, so you know the absurdity of saying medication has no effect on outcome. You have observed yourself how the kids receiving medication are better able to attend to their classes.

Medication doesn't have a long term effect outcome. It provides a short-term solution while you wait for the brain to mature.

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/adhd-drugs-no-long-term-benefits.html

Any medication, whether short term or long term, has no effect on long term outcomes.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2009/short-term-intensive-treatment-not-likely-to-improve-long-term-outcomes-for-children-with-adhd.shtml

This was not a randomized study and is highly controversial. Initially, the kids were randomly assigned but then the families were allowed to do what they wanted so the results are not randomized. Its worthless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

And there you go, OP. This is what the defense of your approach leads to. You are a doctor, so you know the absurdity of saying medication has no effect on outcome. You have observed yourself how the kids receiving medication are better able to attend to their classes.

Medication doesn't have a long term effect outcome. It provides a short-term solution while you wait for the brain to mature.

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/adhd-drugs-no-long-term-benefits.html

Any medication, whether short term or long term, has no effect on long term outcomes.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2009/short-term-intensive-treatment-not-likely-to-improve-long-term-outcomes-for-children-with-adhd.shtml

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

OP here, I knew about much of what you wrote. I really wanted to get an understanding of what becomes of the holdout child or family, and from what I have read here, we are doomed to be ostracized. I will be using all other non drug methods to work with my son. I owe it to him since he will be under so much scrutiny as the unmedicated child with ADD. I did watch him playing with his friends today and plan to speak with him about being too rough, he is big. It will be a constant task, but I don't mind it.

You *plan* to talk to him about being too rough? OP, all kids, and especially kids with ADHD, operate in the moment. By the time you get around to talking to him, he will have forgotten what he did that's "too rough" and won't know what he needs to do next time. Your "constant task" incolves doing something, not just planning.