Anonymous wrote:OP here - he has adamantly refused to let me have access to his email. He keeps his two home computers all locked up. I think he was surprised I got the phone records. He wouldn't even agree to "ground rules" about the phone. I said you need to leave the phone out in the open with the ringer on..and if you go out to garage to work on a project, leave phone in house. he didn't like these "rules" and said I was controlling him. But, I said to him, if you are really and truly working on our marriage, we need to rebuild trust. He doesn't seem very willing to do anything to prove himself re: trust issues right now. But he did apologize again and tell me, I have done what you asked; I have cut off all contact. (He called her after I called her and he apologized to her for my call - which I told him was ridicululous - he should care more about my feelings than her feelings - and he says he told her he was "oversharing" with her and he knows she was just being a supportive friend but that he needed to stop this now.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Yep. He will definitely stop contacting her with his cell phone, but he will be calling her from work and likely from a prepaid phone as well. I am the one who reminded you that they think they are in love. They are not going to just stop talking easily. The fog of the affair is very, very powerful.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Yep. He will definitely stop contacting her with his cell phone, but he will be calling her from work and likely from a prepaid phone as well. I am the one who reminded you that they think they are in love. They are not going to just stop talking easily. The fog of the affair is very, very powerful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair. [b]

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair. [b]

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

Yes, I imagine he did totally get your point. He's gaslighting you when he can, but when the evidence backs him into a corner, he'll be good enough to totally get your point.

I feel so bad for you OP. I've been where you are and made the same mistakes you're making. I hope you have a better outcome, but I don't think you will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

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Anonymous wrote:What exactly is the part you find inappropriate? That your DH has coffee with a friend of the opposite sex? That he talks to her about marital issues? I don't think either of those are that unusual or problematic in & of themselves. But you clearly aren't comfortable with their relationship, so I suppose it's your prerogative to ask him to stop.

Husband says he's unhappy and it takes TWO therapy sessions to finally say he has been having lunch with some woman that is neither family nor a co-worker??? Come on PP. When people are doing something appropriate, they don't wait until therapy to tell their spouse about it.

Anonymous wrote:OP here...It is weird. He met with counselor by himself first. then at our first joint session, all he wanted to talk about was me and my issues, i.e., what he does not like about me. At the second session (before I knew anything about Jane still), I pushed back and really vented about him --- I explained why and how I thought he contributed to the marriage breakdown. i admitted my part completely and fully but he had and still has a very difficult time admitting that he is at fault, too. And now with the Jane thing, I am at my wit's end. For example, in session 2, he said I was "controlling" and claimed I called him every night if he was late coming home from work. Counselor agreed with him and said I can't call until he is 15 minutes late. I said - I don't do that...I call sometimes if there is bad weather mostly because I am worried about highway and accidents. The phone bills for both months showed that I was correct - I called him exactly 3 times on his commute home. He went on an on about how it is okay for him to be 15 - 30 minutes late because he can't control traffic and weather, which is obvious. However, the phone bills show that he would call Jane at 6 p.m. and talk for 45 minutes and thus he would get home late DUE TO HIM TALKING TO HER. This happened repeatedly in Jan and Feb. So, his main issue with me - that I am controlling - is not quite true...It is weird -- he told counselor I can't call him (2nd session) but now with the phone bills, I find out the true reason - he is chatting with her on his commute home and doesn't want to be disturbed. Also he would often not answer his phone and tell me he did not hear the ringer.

Anonymous wrote:He is shifting blame. If he can make you out to be controlling, then he just had to have an affair! He just had to talk to his friend! It's all your fault!

Do you even want to be married to this dickwad anymore?