Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:48     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?

You know, I love Kostner, I loved her all the way back when she was in juniors. Her control of the blade is simply second to none. When she skates, you can't hear a thing because of her masterful, silent blades that slice the ice at the perfect angle. Very few skaters have that. Plus she had those long, long limbs and 3-3 combos back when few people were doing it. All this time, since 2002, I was watching her and hoping that one day, ONE DAY, she will skate like she can.

I was, though, a little disappointed in her performance last night. Carolina always had gutsy choices in music and costumes, I mean, come on, Riders through the Storm? Pantsuits when nobody did them? But last night it was a typical, generic Ave Maria (come on!!! what's next?? Carmen? Freakin Tosca??), in a generic nightie-like dress. I know she guns to win so probably can't be too adventurous, but a little bit of the Carolina I love was lost.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:33     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?


And very gutsy of her to throw that flip in there yesterday instead of the toe. She came to play!


She skated so beautifully in the Team Competition. And I love her costumes - they are just perfection on her.

I mean, I doubt she's going to beat Yu-Na Kim, but if she skates the way she did last week, I believe that the Olympic medal is hers.


I guess the question with Kim is endurance. She has done very few competitive long programs in the last 4 years...although that didn't stop her from winning 2013 Worlds!


right. She came out yesterday and just skated so flawlessly and effortlessly. I think she wins again, but as I said before...anything could happen.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:30     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?


And very gutsy of her to throw that flip in there yesterday instead of the toe. She came to play!


She skated so beautifully in the Team Competition. And I love her costumes - they are just perfection on her.

I mean, I doubt she's going to beat Yu-Na Kim, but if she skates the way she did last week, I believe that the Olympic medal is hers.


I guess the question with Kim is endurance. She has done very few competitive long programs in the last 4 years...although that didn't stop her from winning 2013 Worlds!
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:27     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?


And very gutsy of her to throw that flip in there yesterday instead of the toe. She came to play!


She skated so beautifully in the Team Competition. And I love her costumes - they are just perfection on her.

I mean, I doubt she's going to beat Yu-Na Kim, but if she skates the way she did last week, I believe that the Olympic medal is hers.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:19     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?


And very gutsy of her to throw that flip in there yesterday instead of the toe. She came to play!
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:18     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:

I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!


She is so beautiful to watch. Didn't Johnny say yesterday that there was some skating camp he went to where they showed a video of what a gorgeous performance looks like, and it was Kostner?
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 11:06     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look, no one who knows skating ever expected Ashley Wagner to win a gold medal. At best, she has always had only an outside shot at the bronze, if things fell her way. The high expectations from the public came most likely from the endorsements. I do think that she received more endorsements than her international results merited, but, in the year leading up to the Olympics, with advertisers looking to promote Team America, and with Gracie Gold not quite soup yet, Wagner won the endorsement lottery.

Skating well enough in the short program to make the final flight in the Olympic long program is pretty damn impressive against this international field, and totally validates US Figure Skating's decision to send Wagner to the Olympics. Furthermore, having three American skaters in the top 7 after the Olympic short is extraordinary. While the top three have a lot of separation from the rest, in terms of points, ice is slippery, as Scott Hamilton likes to say. Who could have predicted that Mao Asada would totally implode yesterday? And that Lipnitskaya would suddenly crash? All three of the top skaters in the short are subject to vulnerabilities in the long, so an American may sneak in there for the bronze. We'll see very soon.


this

Anything still can happen. I don't see any of our skaters climbing to gold medal position, but if any of the top 3 falter (and it is possible, although I am totally pulling for Kostner to medal), any of our 3 could have a great skate and sneak on in there for a bronze.

What I actually think is going to happen is that Lipnitskaya is going to go out and skate the shit out of her long and take one of the medals (silver or bronze), and PROBABLY a 4th place finish for one of the Americans. BUT, the next Olympics could be epic and Polina OR Gracie could wind up on the podium quite easily.


I hope the same for Kostner. It is TIME!
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 10:57     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:Look, no one who knows skating ever expected Ashley Wagner to win a gold medal. At best, she has always had only an outside shot at the bronze, if things fell her way. The high expectations from the public came most likely from the endorsements. I do think that she received more endorsements than her international results merited, but, in the year leading up to the Olympics, with advertisers looking to promote Team America, and with Gracie Gold not quite soup yet, Wagner won the endorsement lottery.

Skating well enough in the short program to make the final flight in the Olympic long program is pretty damn impressive against this international field, and totally validates US Figure Skating's decision to send Wagner to the Olympics. Furthermore, having three American skaters in the top 7 after the Olympic short is extraordinary. While the top three have a lot of separation from the rest, in terms of points, ice is slippery, as Scott Hamilton likes to say. Who could have predicted that Mao Asada would totally implode yesterday? And that Lipnitskaya would suddenly crash? All three of the top skaters in the short are subject to vulnerabilities in the long, so an American may sneak in there for the bronze. We'll see very soon.


this

Anything still can happen. I don't see any of our skaters climbing to gold medal position, but if any of the top 3 falter (and it is possible, although I am totally pulling for Kostner to medal), any of our 3 could have a great skate and sneak on in there for a bronze.

What I actually think is going to happen is that Lipnitskaya is going to go out and skate the shit out of her long and take one of the medals (silver or bronze), and PROBABLY a 4th place finish for one of the Americans. BUT, the next Olympics could be epic and Polina OR Gracie could wind up on the podium quite easily.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 10:50     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Look, no one who knows skating ever expected Ashley Wagner to win a gold medal. At best, she has always had only an outside shot at the bronze, if things fell her way. The high expectations from the public came most likely from the endorsements. I do think that she received more endorsements than her international results merited, but, in the year leading up to the Olympics, with advertisers looking to promote Team America, and with Gracie Gold not quite soup yet, Wagner won the endorsement lottery.

Skating well enough in the short program to make the final flight in the Olympic long program is pretty damn impressive against this international field, and totally validates US Figure Skating's decision to send Wagner to the Olympics. Furthermore, having three American skaters in the top 7 after the Olympic short is extraordinary. While the top three have a lot of separation from the rest, in terms of points, ice is slippery, as Scott Hamilton likes to say. Who could have predicted that Mao Asada would totally implode yesterday? And that Lipnitskaya would suddenly crash? All three of the top skaters in the short are subject to vulnerabilities in the long, so an American may sneak in there for the bronze. We'll see very soon.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 10:43     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And please, 10th at Four Continents? No one cares about Four Continents one week before the Olympics, least of all, the skaters who aren't going to the Olympics.)

If you don't care, why go and skate miserably? Become ill or something. Going and skating like you don't care? That's not what champions do.


You go if you want multiple Grand Prix assignments next year. And Mirai does. I haven't seen her short, but I did watch her long program at 4CC. Yes, it was a little flat. Nothing awful, no major mistakes. It's happens. World class athletes sometimes let disappointment creep into their game. Peyton Manning certainly did in the Super Bowl this year, and I would never argue that diminishes his greatness as a quarterback. They have talent, work ethic, training, financial resources, and even luck in amounts I'll never have. They have it all. No doubt. But they're also human. To paraphase Evgeni Plushenko, they're not robots.

No one says they are robots. But when they fail or don't perform up to the standards of excellent, there is generally a recognition that a particular athlete didn't do well. It's not a reflection on their personal value. It is simply a recognition that skater A, B or C did not perform well in competition A, B and C, and was judged as such. You seem to resist that.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 10:41     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:Expert poster, can you give me some insight on something I noticed in the pairs competition? I used to watch figure skating obsessively until about 10 years ago. (when having children displaced all but my most critical personal indulgences!) I couldn't help but notice all the ugly lifts that the pairs were doing. A lot of positions in the air had the female skater grabbing her skate. Other lift positions were variations of traditional ones but were slanted in the air. In both cases, the lifts just didn't have those beautiful lines and extensions that make them so breathtaking. It was very disappointing. Is this a new trend? And if so, WHY??


I am not that poster but I have the answer for you. After the Salt Lake City scandal with judging in the pairs event (completely made up, in my opinion), the International Skating Union has instituted a new judging system. Instead of the ordinal ranking (which ranks athletes in relation to each other), they moved to cumulative judging, where each element is assigned a point value, and the score is a sum of the value of all the elements taken together, adjusted for quality (grade of execution) and complexity (levels 1 through 4) of each element. The highest scoring athlete wins.

In that process, they have assigned different levels of complexity to each element - lifts, spins, step sequences, spirals etc. In very simple terms, the more you do during your element, the higher the point value. A simple lift, while it looks beautiful, may only score as level 1. Increasing complexity of hold (i.e. grabbing your skate), may be a level 2 element. Spinning or changing positions frequently during a lift or a spin (thus not giving you, the viewer, an opportunity to enjoy a sustained beautiful line) may be a level 3 element. On and on it goes. And since the victory goes to the person/pair that scores the highest, athletes go after the elements that produce the highest point value. In some cases, visual beauty of a simple lift, simple spin, simple spiral may be sacrificed to get a higher point value.

I hope that makes sense for you.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 10:34     Subject: Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

USFS should have named both Ashley and Mirai to the team with Gracie. All three have international senior records. Polina Edmunds, who finished second at Nationals, does not. If Ashley was named to the team because her record was better than Mirai's, then Mirai should have been chosen over Polina for that same reason. But again, USFS hates Mirai, so the poor girl got dinged. (And please, 10th at Four Continents? No one cares about Four Continents one week before the Olympics, least of all, the skaters who aren't going to the Olympics.)

Giving 98% for an Olympic athlete is lazy, especially in a field as competitive as US ladies singles. That's why Carroll had no time for this nonsense.

As to who should have been selected to the team, USFSA isn't a charity or a lifetime award outfit. They select people who have a good chance of placing high enough to earn spots for the next year's athletes. They said to Mirai, I don't think you will place. That's what it means when you aren't selected.


Gee, thanks for the information. Slight problem with your argument: Polina is a juniors skater. Nationals was her first senior competition. Ever. Did she do well on the Junior Grand Prix circuit this year? Yes, two golds and a fourth in the Grand Prix Final; she was also the Junior national championship last year. But that does not a senior skater ready for the Olympics make. Again, Mirai has a senior record, arguably second to Ashley this year. (Mirai had one Grand Prix bronze, so did Gracie.) That's current, not a "lifetime award." Polina was not selected over Mirai because of "current"; she was selected because of "future potential."

And stop with the lazy nonsense. Mirai won a national title at 14. I'm going to give the girl 2% to have some semblance of a normal life. You know, for things like school. Christine Gao spends her 2% on her studies at Harvard. In 2010, Rachael Flatt spent her 2% winning a national title, going to the Olympics, and getting into Stanford. Michelle Kwan spent hers going to college, setting the stage for her master's degree and State Department gig. So, stop.

Frank Carroll has had his problems with skaters before. Tiffany Chin. (Actually, Tiffany's mom.) Nicole Bobek. Chris Bowman. Even Michelle Kwan in the season leading up to the 2002 Olympics. (Who was in the kiss and cry with Michelle in Salt Lake? Her dad.) It happens. To interpret a break with a coach as "Oh, the girl must be lazy," is, well, lazy thinking.

Well, since USFSA has a close-up view of skaters you and I will never have, we will just have to assume that their guess as to the future potential is a bit more educated than yours and mine. They have discretion in choosing the team, other than the National champion, and they exercised it.

I don't think you understand what I am trying to say with "lazy". Neither one of these skaters are lazy in average human terms. But Olympic medal contenders aren't average humans. To be a medal contender, you must commit a superhuman amount of energy and time to the pursuit of that goal. If you don't have that, you aren't a contender. I don't fault Mirai for wanting to have a "semblance of normal life." It's her life. She should do whatever she wants. But let's not pretend that you can do whatever you want and still be in the running for the Olympic medal. That's not the way the game works. You want a normal life, you can have one, but you will pay. The price is "not going to the Olympics."

I will also say, with all my kindness, that when you bring Nicole Bobek and Chris Bowman into the discussion of work ethics and "normal life", you make yourself sound silly. None of these skaters, while undeniably talented, ever had the sustained work ethic to be a real contender. Christine Gao and Rachael Flatt understood quite early on that the career in skating ain't happening for them, and very wisely, refocused their energies on life after skating.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 09:30     Subject: Re:Ashley Wagner sucks
Glad to hear it. I saw an ad last night for the women's skating coverage and it had two big pictures -- Ashley and Gracie. No mention or picture of Pollina.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 09:22     Subject: Re:Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:Why does NBC only feature Gracie and Ashley? Pollina was 2nd in nationals and they say nothing about her.

PP, I think you are mistaken that everyone who dislikes her skating on this thread was a former competitor. I am not. I am just a random viewer who feels her selection was unfair and her skating is not up to par. To the PP who said her short vindicated her, uh, not really, what was she 8th?


What are you talking about? NBC did an entire segment on Polina last night - training, skyping with relatives in Russia, being welcomed back to her high school after nationals, etc.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2014 09:16     Subject: Re:Ashley Wagner sucks
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ashley sucks...I don't care what anyone "thinks" she's done. I feel somehow she paid her way to the Olympics. wtf was that horrible music. total lack of class and grace. YUCKY!


Fortunately, the short program judges didn't agree with your "sophisticated" analysis.


haha

I guess she paid off the judges for years, then.

"She is the 2012 Four Continents champion, 2012 Grand Prix Final silver medalist, 2012 Skate America champion, 2012 and 2013 Trophée Eric Bompard champion, 2012 and 2013 U.S. national champion. Her highest World Championship placement is fourth in 2012."

She was the one who gave the US the 3 spots with her placement at Worlds. While I agree her selection to the team is controversial, to say she sucks is ridiculous and not backed up by facts.


She fell twice at the National Championships. She doens't have it right now and shouldn't be in Sochi.


By this reasoning, no one should be in Sochi except for Meryl and Charlie, but, you all think they are ugly....so, I guess just do away with the sport.