Anonymous
01/25/2014 18:23
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP. But don't forget "tracking was a no-no until they renamed it gifted and talented and now AAP.
Gifted education is state mandated.
Just be grateful that fcps has the funds and the motivation to offer this service to such a high percentage and so many more students than most districts in this state and country.
Not sure about the funds thing
Anonymous
01/25/2014 17:43
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Also, isn't the very essence of AAP to track students into two very large groups? AAP/GT is the original tracking program. I agree that advanced classwork should be open to any and all children who are capable of succeeding, regardless of test scores. Some kids are advanced in some subjects but not in others. I know some LLIV schools easily mix the kids depending on abilities. Unfortunately, at center schools, the student is either in full-time AAP or not offered advanced classes at all.
Fewer than 20 percent of students are in the AAP, so I would not consider there to be two large groups, more like one large group and one smaller group. One of my children was in the gen ed program but was a high achiever and the teachers always offered a lot of differentiation. She was in an advanced math group and her language arts group was always reading works that we're more advanced than the rest of the class. This was done in all the classes in my child's school so that the kids were getting instruction appropriate for what they needed.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 17:05
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP. But don't forget "tracking was a no-no until they renamed it gifted and talented and now AAP.
Gifted education is state mandated.
Just be grateful that fcps has the funds and the motivation to offer this service to such a high percentage and so many more students than most districts in this state and country.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 17:03
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Agree, PP. But don't forget "tracking was a no-no until they renamed it gifted and talented and now AAP.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 16:59
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.
I'm wondering how you are defining "entitled" in this context. I don't really see any evidence of entitlement in any of the above posts, but maybe I am using the word differently.
You have asked for information from people who have a background in education, so it sounds as though your background is not in education. Just as people who do not work in your field may not always understand everything about what you do for a living, can you see that you may not understand all the details of the educational system because your background is in a different subject area? It's possible that you don't know all the details about the situations of the students you are observing in the AAP class. The AAP classroom is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom, but that doesn't mean that they "cannot function in the regular classroom...." It is just that the AAP classroom is better suited to their learning needs.
II
As a parent, of course you love your child and want the best for your child. It is possible that the best fit for your child may be the regular classroom and there is not a thing wrong with that. I do think that the fact that your child is so successful (straight As, does all her work without help) in the regular classroom is a sign that that classroom is an excellent fit for her, and that is something to be happy about.
Not OP. All of you saying getting straight As with no help is an indication that the current classroom is an excellent fit are ignoring the possibility that it could mean the classroom is too easy. There are a lot of kids currently in AAP who had all As (4s) in k-2, maybe we should send them back to Gen Ed because it was such an excellent fit. If a child consistently gets all As with no help and little effort, it means the curriculum is too easy for the child, it doesn't mean it is an excellent fit. I personally think there should be regular and honors classes open to all student starting in first grade but I've been told that would be tracking and for some reason is a VERY bad thing until you get to middle school. OP, you won't get any resolution to your concerns on this board, just snark or patronizing comments like the excellent fit ones.
+100 Also, isn't the very essence of AAP to track students into two very large groups? AAP/GT is the original tracking program. I agree that advanced classwork should be open to any and all children who are capable of succeeding, regardless of test scores. Some kids are advanced in some subjects but not in others. I know some LLIV schools easily mix the kids depending on abilities. Unfortunately, at center schools, the student is either in full-time AAP or not offered advanced classes at all.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 14:37
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Gifted Teacher: what do you say to the straight A student every year, is in the same building as the Center, but is not in the AAP program. The child asks, "what more do I have to do?".
Is a smart, high achiever, all around good (kind to others, no bad behavior, participates, is attentive), never has to "study", totally frustrated with the process of teachers "repeating" the same information "over and over"(so others in class can "get it"), "straight A" student, not worthy of having "advanced academics"?
All children do get a fair shake. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the appeals process.
Oh I am very familiar - really wish I wasn't then it would piss me off so much.
The above posts all appear to refer to the same child and give the impression that the poster is seeking advice about a real situation. Other posters with backgrounds in education have offered suggestions for ways to deal with the situation portrayed, as it appeared that there was a parent asking how to help a child who was doing well in school and wanted to be in AAP but was not. The reference to being "very familiar" with the appeals process gave the reader the impression that there had already been an application and then an appeal.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 13:24
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:All of you saying getting straight As with no help is an indication that the current classroom is an excellent fit are ignoring the possibility that it could mean the classroom is too easy.
An earlier post indicated that the child in question here had been determined ineligible for AAP in both the regular and appeals rounds, so it would appear that something in the application, possibly test scores or the GBRS, is indicating to the committee members that the child does not need to be in the AAP classroom. The parent should discuss concerns about the child's placement with the classroom teacher and the AARP. It is possible that the child is working harder to grasp new material in the classroom than the parent realizes. If they all agree that the regular classroom is meeting this child's needs, it probably is a good fit for this child. A parent can re-apply and appeal each year if the parent feels the child is incorrectly placed, but if the teachers are making the same observations of how the child is learning in the classroom and the test scores stay in the same general range, the placement is likely to stay the same.
Not one post saying child was in pool, out of pool, in AAP out of AAP, applied, referred etc...just another example of the lengths people on this forum will go to to justify the need for this unjust, unnecessary program by putting your words in the OP mouth.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 09:47
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
All of you saying getting straight As with no help is an indication that the current classroom is an excellent fit are ignoring the possibility that it could mean the classroom is too easy.
An earlier post indicated that the child in question here had been determined ineligible for AAP in both the regular and appeals rounds, so it would appear that something in the application, possibly test scores or the GBRS, is indicating to the committee members that the child does not need to be in the AAP classroom. The parent should discuss concerns about the child's placement with the classroom teacher and the AARP. It is possible that the child is working harder to grasp new material in the classroom than the parent realizes. If they all agree that the regular classroom is meeting this child's needs, it probably is a good fit for this child. A parent can re-apply and appeal each year if the parent feels the child is incorrectly placed, but if the teachers are making the same observations of how the child is learning in the classroom and the test scores stay in the same general range, the placement is likely to stay the same.
Anonymous
01/25/2014 06:20
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.
I'm wondering how you are defining "entitled" in this context. I don't really see any evidence of entitlement in any of the above posts, but maybe I am using the word differently.
You have asked for information from people who have a background in education, so it sounds as though your background is not in education. Just as people who do not work in your field may not always understand everything about what you do for a living, can you see that you may not understand all the details of the educational system because your background is in a different subject area? It's possible that you don't know all the details about the situations of the students you are observing in the AAP class. The AAP classroom is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom, but that doesn't mean that they "cannot function in the regular classroom...." It is just that the AAP classroom is better suited to their learning needs.
II
As a parent, of course you love your child and want the best for your child. It is possible that the best fit for your child may be the regular classroom and there is not a thing wrong with that. I do think that the fact that your child is so successful (straight As, does all her work without help) in the regular classroom is a sign that that classroom is an excellent fit for her, and that is something to be happy about.
Not OP. All of you saying getting straight As with no help is an indication that the current classroom is an excellent fit are ignoring the possibility that it could mean the classroom is too easy. There are a lot of kids currently in AAP who had all As (4s) in k-2, maybe we should send them back to Gen Ed because it was such an excellent fit. If a child consistently gets all As with no help and little effort, it means the curriculum is too easy for the child, it doesn't mean it is an excellent fit. I personally think there should be regular and honors classes open to all student starting in first grade but I've been told that would be tracking and for some reason is a VERY bad thing until you get to middle school. OP, you won't get any resolution to your concerns on this board, just snark or patronizing comments like the excellent fit ones.
Anonymous
01/24/2014 23:41
Subject: AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:To the pregnant AAP parent, were you fucked standing on your head? Jeez!!
“Smartass is a latent idiot.” No one cares what you have to say. Fool.
Anonymous
01/24/2014 21:50
Subject: Re:AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
AAP is now so selective that many teachers have their cert before applying. Our center school they all have their certifications and two years is not a long time to have to obtain it while your working
AAP teachers are required to obtain a GT endorsement within 5 years of teaching AAP. To get the endorsement they take the equivalent of four graduate level courses. One of the courses is about the social/emotional needs of gifted children, which are generally different than their on-grade level peers..... Having taught both for a number of years I can tell you that overall, most gifted kids DO have different social and emotional needs. Their intelligence and emotional maturity are often not aligned. It's so important for teachers to understand how to help gifted kids themselves and meet their emotional needs. That being said, it is difficult for principals to hire teachers who already have their endorsement, since most start it after they are hired in AAP. In my school, besides myself, I think that two AAP teachers have their full endorsement, 4-5 are working on it, and 3 are brand new teachers who haven't started the endorsement yet. In addition to the endorsement though, we all attend monthly AAP trainings on Mondays and we all take full-day (sometimes multiple day) trainings on specific AAP strategies, i.e. Jason Project, DBQ, Socratic Seminar, William and Mary language arts and social studies, M3 math, etc.
As far as class sizes, that varies by center and by year. A few years ago, I had 22 in my AAP class, while the community classes had 24-25. Last year I had 29 In AAP, community had 18. This year, we all have 30-31 (AAP and community). Staffing is not as easy as many think and it really depends on enrollment in a given year.
The AAP classes should be following generally the same curriculum (except math, which is compacted, mostly a year above). However, AAP classes should be going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning), etc. All AAP teachers have an AAP curriculum guide, which aligns AAP strategies with the general curriculum, and focuses on the higher level thinking skills.
There is a difference between a smart kid and a gifted learner. Not all gifted learners are star students. In fact, the opposite is often true. Many gifted children have attention issues, don't see the purpose in writing long answers, refuse to do homework, forget their materials, etc. Many of them don't know how to study....they never needed to before. On the other hand, many gifted learner are such perfectionists that they completely melt down when things aren't exactly right. They are highly anxious and worry about every last detail. Gifted kids can be highly motivated, but they can also be completely scattered and inattentive (think absent-minded professor). The key for the teachers and parents of gifted kids is to recognize those differences and help guide their gifted learners learn how to make the most of their giftedness
and learn how to handle the challenges that come with being gifted.
Actual AAP teacher here.... I've taught 4th, 5th, and 6th grade AAP at two different center schools for 10 years, and taught general ed for 10 years before that. I have my GT endorsement and have taken literally hundreds of hours of AAP professional development trainings over the years. I'd like to clarify some misconceptions.....
What are you basing this on false information on? This is absolutely not correct. Teachers who are teaching AAP are not all certified yet, I think they have between 3 and 5 years to acquire their certification.
AAP teachers are required to obtain a GT endorsement within 5 years of teaching AAP. To get the endorsement they take the equivalent of four graduate level courses. One of the courses is about the social/emotional needs of gifted children, which are generally different than their on-grade level peers..... Having taught both for a number of years I can tell you that overall, most gifted kids DO have different social and emotional needs. Their intelligence and emotional maturity are often not aligned. It's so important for teachers to understand how to help gifted kids themselves and meet their emotional needs. That being said, it is difficult for principals to hire teachers who already have their endorsement, since most start it after they are hired in AAP. In my school, besides myself, I think that two AAP teachers have their full endorsement, 4-5 are working on it, and 3 are brand new teachers who haven't started the endorsement yet. In addition to the endorsement though, we all attend monthly AAP trainings on Mondays and we all take full-day (sometimes multiple day) trainings on specific AAP strategies, i.e. Jason Project, DBQ, Socratic Seminar, William and Mary language arts and social studies, M3 math, etc.
As far as class sizes, that varies by center and by year. A few years ago, I had 22 in my AAP class, while the community classes had 24-25. Last year I had 29 In AAP, community had 18. This year, we all have 30-31 (AAP and community). Staffing is not as easy as many think and it really depends on enrollment in a given year.
The AAP classes should be following generally the same curriculum (except math, which is compacted, mostly a year above). However, AAP classes should be going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning), etc. All AAP teachers have an AAP curriculum guide, which aligns AAP strategies with the general curriculum, and focuses on the higher level thinking skills.
There is a difference between a smart kid and a gifted learner. Not all gifted learners are star students. In fact, the opposite is often true. Many gifted children have attention issues, don't see the purpose in writing long answers, refuse to do homework, forget their materials, etc. Many of them don't know how to study....they never needed to before. On the other hand, many gifted learner are such perfectionists that they completely melt down when things aren't exactly right. They are highly anxious and worry about every last detail. Gifted kids can be highly motivated, but they can also be completely scattered and inattentive (think absent-minded professor). The key for the teachers and parents of gifted kids is to recognize those differences and help guide their gifted learners learn how to make the most of their giftedness
and learn how to handle the challenges that come with being gifted.
Thank you so much for all this information. I have a 3rd grader in AAP this year; and we have had some struggles. It's the teacher's first year teaching AAP although she's been teaching for about 8 years.
The learning capabilities you have made reference too; are exactly my child, especially the perfectionist tendency which I explained to to the teacher and she dismissed it. But I know it's true if things are not orderly at home its easy for DC to melt down. So again, thank you so much for your insightful information.
You seem like a fantastic teacher, your students and parents are lucky to have you.
Anonymous
01/24/2014 20:19
Subject: AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, move your child out of AAP as that is where you think she belongs.
We will absolutely be doing that. Switching to private next year. Buh-bye, insane FCPS AAP.
Excellent! The classrooms are really overcrowded. Thanks for leaving!
Not at our center. The AAP classes, though far more numerous, are smaller than the Gen Ed classes.
Anonymous
01/24/2014 20:18
Subject: AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
To the pregnant AAP parent, were you fucked standing on your head? Jeez!!
Anonymous
01/24/2014 19:46
Subject: AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, move your child out of AAP as that is where you think she belongs.
We will absolutely be doing that. Switching to private next year. Buh-bye, insane FCPS AAP.
Excellent! The classrooms are really overcrowded. Thanks for leaving!
Anonymous
01/24/2014 19:32
Subject: AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...
Anonymous wrote:Well, move your child out of AAP as that is where you think she belongs.
We will absolutely be doing that. Switching to private next year. Buh-bye, insane FCPS AAP.