Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

Everybody knows that teaching does not usually pay well, and is a low-prestige job to boot (just ask the high-powered lawyer PP, above). Which is why a lot of people who might be good teachers decide not to go into teaching, but instead to go into a different field that pays better and has more prestige. Yay for them. Too bad for us, though.

Bigger pay means bigger class-size. The budget only has so much. You take out the illegals and all the costs associated with teaching their kids and you have a much bigger budget to work with. But everyone is too PC to mention that educating millions of kids that need ESOL, FARMS and have parents that directly never help the school. Well it has added up over time. Bigger class sizes, no more aides, less paraeducators, etc... It has destroyed MCPS district in the last 10-15 years.

I agree that costs and resources are being redirected to bring non English speakers up to speed and it is why I would prefer to have a separate school for non english speakers that is paid for by the family. The school will bring them up to speed until the student can assimiliate into a regular classroom. That will provide incentive for the family to make sure their kid learns English quickly so they don't have to pay for the English classes. As for the FARMS kids and I bet you can lump the ESOL kids in here too, if you are succeeding in school and keeping up with the curriculum ,you have every right to be there. Can't afford lunch - different program - its called welfare and it shouldn't be tied to educational budgets. don't mix the apples with the oranges. I also support having a school for misbehaving kids. By keeping the classromm homogenized to the extent that you have an avergae performance for each grade will simplify teaching. Those that excel can go into their G&T programs. Those that fall behind can go into programs designed for slower learners. But a teacher won't have to try and deal with kids all progressing at vastly different paces or kids that are disruptive.

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

This is such an ignorant comment that it's almost not worth a response. So now doctors and lawyers are money-hungry? That is absurd. The majority of teachers go into teaching because they love children and want to make a difference (just as, presumably, doctors go into medicine to help people, etc.) This doesn't mean teachers don't deserve fair pay. What's wrong with wanting to change the system and work to improve it? Stop pointing fingers at us. Blame your congressmen who won't allow more funding to go toward public education. By the way, every job you list above does not require the same level of education (not to mention student loans) that teaching requires (bachelor's and a masters), so it is ridiculous to put them in the same category. Also, there IS a huge need for teachers in math, science, and special Ed. The "crappy" teachers who aren't fired due to tenure is such a small fraction of the problem, that has been highlighted by politicians and big business as a credible way to champion for-profit, community-dividing charter schools that don't have to play by the same rules as public schools who accept EVERYBODY. It's blatantly obvious to those of us who are actually in the classroom every day, what could be done to fix the problems. But we're just a bunch of civil servents as you say, so what does our opinion matter anyway?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

Everybody knows that teaching does not usually pay well, and is a low-prestige job to boot (just ask the high-powered lawyer PP, above). Which is why a lot of people who might be good teachers decide not to go into teaching, but instead to go into a different field that pays better and has more prestige. Yay for them. Too bad for us, though.

Bigger pay means bigger class-size. The budget only has so much. You take out the illegals and all the costs associated with teaching their kids and you have a much bigger budget to work with. But everyone is too PC to mention that educating millions of kids that need ESOL, FARMS and have parents that directly never help the school. Well it has added up over time. Bigger class sizes, no more aides, less paraeducators, etc... It has destroyed MCPS district in the last 10-15 years.

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

Everybody knows that teaching does not usually pay well, and is a low-prestige job to boot (just ask the high-powered lawyer PP, above). Which is why a lot of people who might be good teachers decide not to go into teaching, but instead to go into a different field that pays better and has more prestige. Yay for them. Too bad for us, though.

We all need to move to Finland. One of the best run schools systems out there. It is crazy how different their education is and the respect teachers receive.

http://www.thedailyriff.com/articles/the-finland-phenomenon-inside-the-worlds-most-surprising-school-system-588.php

Make, not name ^^

Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

Anonymous wrote:Teachers, as a profession, have the lowest SAT and GPA scores so their ability to get into a law school which is almost a requirement now...

Source please? Lowest SAT and GPA scores according to what credible data source and when compared to who exactly?

We get a quarterly newsletter from the first grade team that explains what is being covered that quarter.
Our child's teacher also sends out a weekly homework sheet that includes topics/activities being covered that week as well the spelling words for the week.

NP here, cross posting from a discussion on Jobs and Careers.

Business Insider: What Teacher Pay Looks Like In The Rest Of The World
http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-where-teachers-get-paid-more-2013-7

"US high school teachers are paid 72 percent as much as all college graduates in the workforce, while in other OECD countries, that figure is 90 percent (Exhibit 35)."

"Countries with exceptional student achievement treat teaching as a highly selective profession that is accorded tremendous prestige and competitive compensation," wrote the authors. "Only the very best students are admitted into teaching programs in Singapore, Finland, and South Korea, for example, and standards are especially high for elementary school teachers"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Our potential for earnings and our base salary pales in comparison to that of a lawyer and most other professional positions so I don't see how you can make this comparison.

The majority of teachers would never cut it as a highly paid lawyer. Law schools pump out lots of law grads but very few make the big bucks. The ones that do are competitive and work hours that rival medical residents. Teachers, as a profession, have the lowest SAT and GPA scores so their ability to get into a law school which is almost a requirement now if you hope to get by a mid to large firm would be limited.

Teaching K-12 is not a competitive field which means that the best and brightest do not rise about the mediocre to just not bad enough to get fired. Raises are driven more from union negotiation and go against seniority and flat educational credentials. Raises are not driven by actually being a better teacher or doing anything with the masters that you earned. This scenario provides job security to many people but it holds the profession back significantly and reinforces teaching as an option for individuals that are not competitive, academically brilliant, or ambitious.

I think teaching should become more professionalized BUT increasing the performance and professionalism of this field will never happen is raises and job security are given for existence rather than merit.

And the majority of highly-paid lawyers would never cut it as teachers.

If you sincerely want to increase the performance and professionalism of this field, you might start by giving some respect to actual teachers.

My sentiments exactly. This original quote spoken like a true lawyer, complete with total arrogance. Teaching is an art form, for which you clearly have no respect, knowledge, or clue. Nobody was ever questioning whether teachers should be compensated as well as you genius lawyers. Only that our level of compensation should be adequate for the job at hand. We work well more than 40 hours per week (WELL MORE) and the job is mind-bogglingly stressful and requires very specific skills in order to be effective. The average lawyer in this country makes what, 130K? And does the average teacher make even half of that? Maybe about half of that. Is our job REALLY worth half the value of yours? Teaching our children how to read, write, and think? I think most people would argue not. This isn't about comparing salaries anyway. This is about improving the field of education, correct? Don't you agree that part of this starts with retaining good teachers? Something like 80% of all teachers now are in their first 5 years. That is really depressing and telling.

Anonymous wrote:^^^speaking of lawyers and teachers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/22/you-think-you-know-what-teachers-do-right-wrong/

The conclusion of the piece:

The problem with teaching as a profession is that every single adult citizen of this country thinks that they know what teachers do. And they don’t. So they prescribe solutions, and they develop public policy, and they editorialize, and they politicize. And they don’t listen to those who do know. Those who could teach. The teachers.

Thank you and agreed.

^^^speaking of lawyers and teachers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/22/you-think-you-know-what-teachers-do-right-wrong/

The conclusion of the piece:

The problem with teaching as a profession is that every single adult citizen of this country thinks that they know what teachers do. And they don’t. So they prescribe solutions, and they develop public policy, and they editorialize, and they politicize. And they don’t listen to those who do know. Those who could teach. The teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Our potential for earnings and our base salary pales in comparison to that of a lawyer and most other professional positions so I don't see how you can make this comparison.

The majority of teachers would never cut it as a highly paid lawyer. Law schools pump out lots of law grads but very few make the big bucks. The ones that do are competitive and work hours that rival medical residents. Teachers, as a profession, have the lowest SAT and GPA scores so their ability to get into a law school which is almost a requirement now if you hope to get by a mid to large firm would be limited.

Teaching K-12 is not a competitive field which means that the best and brightest do not rise about the mediocre to just not bad enough to get fired. Raises are driven more from union negotiation and go against seniority and flat educational credentials. Raises are not driven by actually being a better teacher or doing anything with the masters that you earned. This scenario provides job security to many people but it holds the profession back significantly and reinforces teaching as an option for individuals that are not competitive, academically brilliant, or ambitious.

I think teaching should become more professionalized BUT increasing the performance and professionalism of this field will never happen is raises and job security are given for existence rather than merit.

And the majority of highly-paid lawyers would never cut it as teachers.

If you sincerely want to increase the performance and professionalism of this field, you might start by giving some respect to actual teachers.

Our potential for earnings and our base salary pales in comparison to that of a lawyer and most other professional positions so I don't see how you can make this comparison.

The majority of teachers would never cut it as a highly paid lawyer. Law schools pump out lots of law grads but very few make the big bucks. The ones that do are competitive and work hours that rival medical residents. Teachers, as a profession, have the lowest SAT and GPA scores so their ability to get into a law school which is almost a requirement now if you hope to get by a mid to large firm would be limited.

Teaching K-12 is not a competitive field which means that the best and brightest do not rise about the mediocre to just not bad enough to get fired. Raises are driven more from union negotiation and go against seniority and flat educational credentials. Raises are not driven by actually being a better teacher or doing anything with the masters that you earned. This scenario provides job security to many people but it holds the profession back significantly and reinforces teaching as an option for individuals that are not competitive, academically brilliant, or ambitious.

I think teaching should become more professionalized BUT increasing the performance and professionalism of this field will never happen is raises and job security are given for existence rather than merit.