Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We wash and reuse our zip lock bags.

Wow, I am a pretty frugal low key person, but that is too much for me. I don't think they are a huge expense, I don't use them that often, it sounds like it would be hard to get them dry.

We do it more for the reduce/reuse/recycle mantra. Not for the savings. We use one box over a number of years as we dont use them much at all.

You can buy reusable baggies that Velcro close and can be washed by hand or in dishwasher.

Tried those, they suck

Yeah, we also tried those when we were switching over to un-papered towels and cloth diapers, but we just couldn't find a ziploc replacement that worked better than tupperware. So we expanded our stash of mini-size tupperware containers for snacks but those reuseable cloth snack bags didn't work for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We wash and reuse our zip lock bags.

Wow, I am a pretty frugal low key person, but that is too much for me. I don't think they are a huge expense, I don't use them that often, it sounds like it would be hard to get them dry.

We do it more for the reduce/reuse/recycle mantra. Not for the savings. We use one box over a number of years as we dont use them much at all.

You can buy reusable baggies that Velcro close and can be washed by hand or in dishwasher.

Tried those, they suck

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:

Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.

What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?

Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.

Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.

But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.

Get cheaper housing. It exists.

If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.

Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.

Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.

+1

Probably was meant for that other thread about HHI, but still, +1.

"Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below. "

For the type of incomes that are posted here. It is entirely possible. You just have to live like you are graduate school for a few years once your income goes up. That is how we did it and we don't have nearly the HHI that has been posted. However, too many people want instant or nearly instant gratification.

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:

Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.

What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?

Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.

Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.

But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.

Get cheaper housing. It exists.

If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.

Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.

Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We wash and reuse our zip lock bags.

Wow, I am a pretty frugal low key person, but that is too much for me. I don't think they are a huge expense, I don't use them that often, it sounds like it would be hard to get them dry.

We do it more for the reduce/reuse/recycle mantra. Not for the savings. We use one box over a number of years as we dont use them much at all.

You can buy reusable baggies that Velcro close and can be washed by hand or in dishwasher.

Anonymous wrote:OP asked about how people budget their money with less than 200K HHI *and 2 kids in daycare* but half the respondents here have older kids or don't use daycare at all. Daycare is a huge expense. It would be nice to hear more responses from people who are actually in the circumstances OP describes.

We're in the same situation, or more accurately, will be in 6 months. We make just under 200k. Here are our general budget and we live in Alexandria.

Rent - just under 1800 for 2 bd condo (about 800 sq ft)
Childcare - currently $1150/month, will be $2300/month with two
Food - about 1k/month (we don't skimp on this - we eat organic, local through a farm share and eat mostly fresh produce, very little processed stuff)
Utilities - $80-150/month (a lot is included in rent)
Car - $400/month (= payment + insurance + gas)
Student loans - $500/month
Random shopping (clothes, sippy cups, household items) - $100-200/month

Retirement - we put away approx 10% if you include employer matching
529 savings - $750-1000/month
Saving up for a down payment - $2-2.5k/month

To OP's question, we survive by living in the burbs (though we're just across the Potomac, so my commute to work is quicker than many of my friends who live in the district), using a licensed in-home provider instead of a center for childcare, cooking from scratch, and not shopping. I get new clothes every 2-3 years and I don't wear designer labels. I don't go for weekly manicures, I do my own eyebrows, I get my haircut once or twice a year - basically I take it upon myself to look nice and presentable. I don't contract that out to professionals and over the years, I've found ways to make that work. I did take a make up/skincare class years ago, but I think anyone really can learn to do these things yourself and look just as nice as some one who's at the salon every week. For vacations - we pretty much just visit family because our families are spread far and wide. We usually do a mini 1-2 day vacation within the vacation to get our own time, but airfare really is the biggest expense in our travel budget. We stay with family and only have 2-3 nights a year in a hotel - for which, we use AirBnB. We also aren't plowing through our loans as quickly as we would if we were without childcare expenses, but we're not overwhelmed by it and we're making good progress, will finish them off well ahead of schedule. So it is what it is. At least we don't have credit card debt.

We started living a certain way when we got our first jobs out of grad school and we haven't really upped our lifestyle since then, even though our income has doubled, aside from going from 1 bd --> 2 bd and now paying for childcare.

Anonymous wrote:"How does your family survive making under 200k hhi?"
You can't.

22:33 here: I beg to differ. I am raising three kids on much, much less than $200K -- and helping out my parents/ILs and an unemployed friend who lives in our basement rent-free. Of course, we've owned our house for a decade and we don't go out to dinner very often, but see my post and you can that we're doing it.

Our income is far less than 200k. We have no mortgage, live in a good school district, drive one very old car, one newish car, both bought with cash, so no car payments. No child care because our kids are older, but I SAH, so no need for child care or nanny. Our house is about 2800 square feet, and it needs work, we take one or two vacations a year, not far away, and not expensive. We are very careful with our money, always lived well within our means, saved enough to pay off our mortgage, so we're not burdened by a huge mortgage payment.

I find it outrageous that people are having trouble making ends meet on 200, 300, 400k. It's easy to spend money, but much harder to limit yourself, which is what we do. Practice some self-discipline, people! And stop whining about how "poor" you are. Sell your house if you can't afford it.

I think we have a nice life, but we are not wealthy, and we don't live like wealthy people. I shop at TJMaxx, outlet stores, thrift shops, bought all our furniture at antique/used furniture stores, etc. Our house looks presentable, but is not filled with the latest trends or loads of the latest electronic toys. There's no granite in my kitchen, but it's still pretty and nice enough for our needs.

Sure, I'd love to have more, but I can't afford it, and I don't buy what I can't afford.

I am a single mom that has successfully raised two sons in DC on less than $50k. I am willing to share some ideas with those interested. Contact me @ resourcequeenp@gmail.com

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:

Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.

What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?

Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.

Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.

But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.

Get cheaper housing. It exists.

If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.

Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.

Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.

+ 1.

I find it laughable that neighbors who make 300K are so strapped for cash and savings that they cannot even pull out a few thousand for emergencies.

Here is an exercise in sanity. Don't think of HHI. Think of HHS (Household saving).

Determine an amount that you have to save (I recommend 50% for a 200K salary) and then live on 100K. 100 K is a GENEROUS amount - if you cannot live on that you are not that smart.

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:

Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.

What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?

Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.

Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.

But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.

Get cheaper housing. It exists.

If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.

Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.

Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.

Bingo.

Anonymous wrote:I've been tracking our household expenses for a few months and just dont kniw how other families with 2 dc in daycare survive making under 200k. I don't feel we spend extravagantly at all. We have two used toyotas the newest is 4 years old. We have a modest 2000sqft house, still furnishing the house slowly, go on 2 vacations a year somewhere on the east coast, eat out maybe 1-2x a week, buy whats necessary for clothing... I do try to buy a lot of organic foods to cook. For the year, we easily spend 130k, which is 200k+ a year gross. How do families in this area survive on less?

My GOD you are an idiot!
- @VonniMediaMogul

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:

Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.

What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?

Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.

Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.

But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.

Get cheaper housing. It exists.

If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.

Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.

Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.

Many people are not from the DC area and are used to living in much better housing and schools for less of a chunk of their income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.

Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.

They never eat out.

They never go on vacations.

We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.

I am caling bull shit on this one, you must have bought a house before the bubble or put a lot down. Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below.

Your Pay Check Results

Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556

Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-700 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$321 a month left

As you can see with the above conservative calculations, living on 200K HHI isn't really affluent.

In fact the above doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money.

sorry one mistake I should' ve taken the house insurance and divided by 12

Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556

Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-58 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$963 a month left

Again this isn't much if you consider the calculation doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money etc...

Bought in late 2009, purchase price was 660, I rounded up to 700. Our loan was for 417k at 4.75. We refi'd twice, reducing the loan amount and term each time, are now at 3.6 on a 20 year. PITI ~ 2,900/month. We put everything we had that wasn't in retirement accounts into the house, including a 20k loan from family that was secured against retirement assets and paid off within a year.

Car insurance is only 100/month (good drivers, paid off cars).

So using your example above it would leave 1,300/month, an extra 16k of after tax per year. When we can put the kids in daycare the open up another 20k/year. When they go to school even more.

Most people your age don't have $285K to put down on a house and have student loans that didn't allow them to or continue to do so. You are not the norm.

The tax amounts in the example above are also high, we only paid a combined 28k state and fed, so that's another 10k to take the excess to 26k/year.

We had 223 (660-417 loan-20 family loan).

We made under 100k in 2006, didn't break 150 until 2011. Hustled and did side jobs to supplement income and saved aggressively. The average income in most of the affluent suburbs is around 100k, so there are many making it work.

We are incredibly fortunate to make what we do. It allowed us to do years of IVF without going into debt. The nanny is a luxury that we never would have considered had our children been born at term, we feel incredibly lucky that we can afford a wonderful nanny to get them through the first few years. I didn't say we were the norm, but I do say that you can live well on under 200, which is the premise of the thread.