Anonymous
12/13/2013 19:24
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My two cents--
You work hard, that's hypersonic do it. If you want do every single non-academic thing (spend a day at the mall) then you cannot make time for sitting down to study. You prioritize your life to make time to study.
If you expect to do every single thing you want to do (spend Sundays watching ballgames, friday nights are movie nights, Monday, Wed are sports practice). Then ask yourself "How do I do it while not giving up anything?" then the answer is, you can't.
I felt like I had time to do both. Sports, clubs, hanging out with friends, etc. Academics were solid enough to get me into my college of choice but that last two percent isn't what makes or breaks you.
Think you're missing the point. In the stereotypical Indian families, "solid enough" is not good enough, and they do believe that the last 2% makes or breaks you. That last 2% is what keeps you from getting into an ivy/MIT/Caltech/wherever. That last 2% is what keeps you from being promoted at work; while a Caucasian person will get promoted at 100%, some Indian parents believe that their Indian kids will only be promoted if they are 102%. Same with college admissions -- esp with the over-representation of Asians at top colleges -- you won't get in if you aren't better than the majority applicants in a statistically significant way.
I think you have to grow up in this fear to truly understand it. Believe me I am living it right now, when my white friends are looking at me like I'm crazy for being SO worried about my job prospects given my degrees and experience.
Pp you quoted - I am Indian (parents immigrated) as it turns out, being a well rounded person who can connect with others easily, can converse on a wide range of subjects and comfortably speak in front of large groups was far more professionally (not to mention personally) valuable than that last two percent. my siblings and I have done far better professionally than my cousins or friends who were drilled into their books and we're motivated by fear.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 18:10
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: most of the Indians I know from my parents' generation involve a dad who is an engineer and a sahm.
This varies with geography. Most Indians I knew growing up -- engineer dad; mom who stayed at home for a while through elementary and then picked up whatever job she could. So there were lots of moms working part time retail, or in banks, insurance companies, hospitals etc. in general admin jobs. Mom's job was secondary and usually only to be able to save extra money (for college, family, whatever), and thus moms were still around to be involved in kid's schoolwork.
I didn't know a lot of dual professional Indian households but there were a few -- 2 doctor or engineer/dr. families -- and they had the hardest balance in terms working and still making sure their kids were being educated as they wanted.
I am an Indian SAHM who left a lucrative career to stay home with kids. I see in other forums much hand wringing because SAHMs regret that they are broke or poor because they chose to stay at home. This is not the dynamics in my house or of other Indian friends who all have more or less followed this path. There is no his and her money and so it is a loss of income for the family not the wife. My SAH was seen as a great sacrifice by my husband and he is grateful to me for that. My work as a mom who is working to insure my kids success in life is very valued in the family. I would not be motivated to do so if that was not the case.
This is a decision that will get more common in our current generation. PPs may have been referring to their parents who came in the 70-80s as the moms may have been college educated in India but without a set career path -- so when they needed to pick up work for money, they looked to general admin roles. Now with our generation -- Indian men and women are encouraged to go to college and pursue the same things like law, med, whatever. Once they marry and have kids, they'll have to decide how to balance 2 professional careers with raising their kids the way they were raised.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 18:01
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: most of the Indians I know from my parents' generation involve a dad who is an engineer and a sahm.
This varies with geography. Most Indians I knew growing up -- engineer dad; mom who stayed at home for a while through elementary and then picked up whatever job she could. So there were lots of moms working part time retail, or in banks, insurance companies, hospitals etc. in general admin jobs. Mom's job was secondary and usually only to be able to save extra money (for college, family, whatever), and thus moms were still around to be involved in kid's schoolwork.
I didn't know a lot of dual professional Indian households but there were a few -- 2 doctor or engineer/dr. families -- and they had the hardest balance in terms working and still making sure their kids were being educated as they wanted.
I am an Indian SAHM who left a lucrative career to stay home with kids. I see in other forums much hand wringing because SAHMs regret that they are broke or poor because they chose to stay at home. This is not the dynamics in my house or of other Indian friends who all have more or less followed this path. There is no his and her money and so it is a loss of income for the family not the wife. My SAH was seen as a great sacrifice by my husband and he is grateful to me for that. My work as a mom who is working to insure my kids success in life is very valued in the family. I would not be motivated to do so if that was not the case.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:56
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Think you're missing the point. In the stereotypical Indian families, "solid enough" is not good enough, and they do believe that the last 2% makes or breaks you. That last 2% is what keeps you from getting into an ivy/MIT/Caltech/wherever. That last 2% is what keeps you from being promoted at work; while a Caucasian person will get promoted at 100%, some Indian parents believe that their Indian kids will only be promoted if they are 102%. Same with college admissions -- esp with the over-representation of Asians at top colleges -- you won't get in if you aren't better than the majority applicants in a statistically significant way.
I think you have to grow up in this fear to truly understand it. Believe me I am living it right now, when my white friends are looking at me like I'm crazy for being SO worried about my job prospects given my degrees and experience.
Exactly. Comes back to my assertion that you do not have to be better than whites, you have to be exponentially better than whites.
Here is something I have seen and observed that needs to change within the Indian community. We need to have our own version of the "Old Boys" network, because we are now gaining a foothold in many industries. The isolation and the tendency to become an "island" needs to end. Help other Indians traverse the same path of success that you have traveled.
I'm the PP. So true. There are Indians in all kinds of fields now -- not just engineering and medicine, but law, banking, economists, high end positions in the gov't etc. Not sure of your experience, but I don't see Indians as willing to network and mentor other Indians, as you seen amongst whites. Sure some of the younger ones -- ages 20s-30s will because that's what they see amongst their white and Indian peers, but those who are in positions of power in their 50s and 60s just don't care to do it. Not sure what it is -- either it's a "I made it by myself so why should I help" attitude, or "I'll use my influence only for my own kids/family" or "you're not the same caste, religion, background as me." I don't think they get that whatever you do for someone from a networking perspective tends to get paid back to you down the road somewhere.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:52
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote: most of the Indians I know from my parents' generation involve a dad who is an engineer and a sahm.
This varies with geography. Most Indians I knew growing up -- engineer dad; mom who stayed at home for a while through elementary and then picked up whatever job she could. So there were lots of moms working part time retail, or in banks, insurance companies, hospitals etc. in general admin jobs. Mom's job was secondary and usually only to be able to save extra money (for college, family, whatever), and thus moms were still around to be involved in kid's schoolwork.
I didn't know a lot of dual professional Indian households but there were a few -- 2 doctor or engineer/dr. families -- and they had the hardest balance in terms working and still making sure their kids were being educated as they wanted.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:48
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:
Think you're missing the point. In the stereotypical Indian families, "solid enough" is not good enough, and they do believe that the last 2% makes or breaks you. That last 2% is what keeps you from getting into an ivy/MIT/Caltech/wherever. That last 2% is what keeps you from being promoted at work; while a Caucasian person will get promoted at 100%, some Indian parents believe that their Indian kids will only be promoted if they are 102%. Same with college admissions -- esp with the over-representation of Asians at top colleges -- you won't get in if you aren't better than the majority applicants in a statistically significant way.
I think you have to grow up in this fear to truly understand it. Believe me I am living it right now, when my white friends are looking at me like I'm crazy for being SO worried about my job prospects given my degrees and experience.
Exactly. Comes back to my assertion that you do not have to be better than whites, you have to be exponentially better than whites.
Here is something I have seen and observed that needs to change within the Indian community. We need to have our own version of the "Old Boys" network, because we are now gaining a foothold in many industries. The isolation and the tendency to become an "island" needs to end. Help other Indians traverse the same path of success that you have traveled.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:46
Subject: Re:How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:this is from several friends now grown up. agree with the above, very strict. my kid is good at sports b/c we gave him a ball at 2 and he just played a lot to develop coordination.
not so much for other cultures that sign their kid up for a class at 7 and want them to be a star.
honestly nurture them and make them work hard, but don't lose sight of developing their happiness and confidence and working on having a good relationship.
there are A LOT of miserable overachievers.
Such as the Indian guy who hates being in law school and would rather be a teacher...
This is so true. I am a therapist and cannot tell you how many miserable overachievers I see daily.
People are miserable. Some are over-achievers and some are under-achievers. As a therapist you will only see miserable over-achievers because they can afford you. Maybe once the Obamacare website starts working, you will see some miserable under-achievers as well.
Given a choice to be rich & unhappy Vs. poor & unhappy , guess what the majority of people will choose?
Well, I choose to be middle class and happy. Why is everything so black and white. The choices don't have to be Harvard and a $500k/yr job or living under a bridge, you know...
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:32
Subject: Re:How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:this is from several friends now grown up. agree with the above, very strict. my kid is good at sports b/c we gave him a ball at 2 and he just played a lot to develop coordination.
not so much for other cultures that sign their kid up for a class at 7 and want them to be a star.
honestly nurture them and make them work hard, but don't lose sight of developing their happiness and confidence and working on having a good relationship.
there are A LOT of miserable overachievers.
Such as the Indian guy who hates being in law school and would rather be a teacher...
This is so true. I am a therapist and cannot tell you how many miserable overachievers I see daily.
People are miserable. Some are over-achievers and some are under-achievers. As a therapist you will only see miserable over-achievers because they can afford you. Maybe once the Obamacare website starts working, you will see some miserable under-achievers as well.
Given a choice to be rich & unhappy Vs. poor & unhappy , guess what the majority of people will choose?
Anonymous
12/13/2013 17:25
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My two cents--
You work hard, that's how you do it. If you want do every single non-academic thing (spend a day at the mall) then you cannot make time for sitting down to study. You prioritize your life to make time to study.
If you expect to do every single thing you want to do (spend Sundays watching ballgames, friday nights are movie nights, Monday, Wed are sports practice). Then ask yourself "How do I do it while not giving up anything?" then the answer is, you can't.
I felt like I had time to do both. Sports, clubs, hanging out with friends, etc. Academics were solid enough to get me into my college of choice but that last two percent isn't what makes or breaks you.
Think you're missing the point. In the stereotypical Indian families, "solid enough" is not good enough, and they do believe that the last 2% makes or breaks you. That last 2% is what keeps you from getting into an ivy/MIT/Caltech/wherever. That last 2% is what keeps you from being promoted at work; while a Caucasian person will get promoted at 100%, some Indian parents believe that their Indian kids will only be promoted if they are 102%. Same with college admissions -- esp with the over-representation of Asians at top colleges -- you won't get in if you aren't better than the majority applicants in a statistically significant way.
I think you have to grow up in this fear to truly understand it. Believe me I am living it right now, when my white friends are looking at me like I'm crazy for being SO worried about my job prospects given my degrees and experience.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 16:17
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:My two cents--
You work hard, that's how you do it. If you want do every single non-academic thing (spend a day at the mall) then you cannot make time for sitting down to study. You prioritize your life to make time to study.
If you expect to do every single thing you want to do (spend Sundays watching ballgames, friday nights are movie nights, Monday, Wed are sports practice). Then ask yourself "How do I do it while not giving up anything?" then the answer is, you can't.
I felt like I had time to do both. Sports, clubs, hanging out with friends, etc. Academics were solid enough to get me into my college of choice but that last two percent isn't what makes or breaks you.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 16:05
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
My two cents--
You work hard, that's how you do it. If you want do every single non-academic thing (spend a day at the mall) then you cannot make time for sitting down to study. You prioritize your life to make time to study.
If you expect to do every single thing you want to do (spend Sundays watching ballgames, friday nights are movie nights, Monday, Wed are sports practice). Then ask yourself "How do I do it while not giving up anything?" then the answer is, you can't.
You work hard, that's how you do it. If you want do every single non-academic thing (spend a day at the mall) then you cannot make time for sitting down to study. You prioritize your life to make time to study.
If you expect to do every single thing you want to do (spend Sundays watching ballgames, friday nights are movie nights, Monday, Wed are sports practice). Then ask yourself "How do I do it while not giving up anything?" then the answer is, you can't.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 16:01
Subject: Re:How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
I'm white. When I first took my son to Kumon at the age of five, I was stunned - we were the only white family there. Everyone else was indian or asian. All those kids, just sitting there, heads down, working away - so unlike your typical american classroom! I was impressed. Fast forward five years. My son is still doing Kumon every night and I'm still checking his homework every morning with my coffee. Not the funnest thing I could think of! My son is not a math wiz, but he is the best in his elementary school class. Over the years we've seen many white families come and go. No one has stuck around for longer than a few months. Most of the indian families I met when we first came are still there. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 15:44
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous
12/13/2013 15:38
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
Anonymous wrote:How do Indian parents do it? Lots of hard work and sacrifice for their children and no life of their own.
Why do they do it? Here is the mindset - they have come from a culture where the difference between the have-nots and haves was very stark, and education was the way to salvation. Coming to the US these fears were not removed but exaggerated the first time they faced the glass ceiling.
There was a naivete when they first came here that merit will be a great equalizer, but then they watch themselves being bypassed at work frequently. Then they are told that they are different. They are a minority but unlike Hispanics or AA they will not be given any breaks. They will compete with whites, but because of their skin color they don't have to be just better than the whites, they have to be exponentially better than the whites.
So as a result this is what happens. Indians don't just prepare, they over-prepare.
They save like crazy, live frugally, because God forbid they have to take any handouts from someone. They will pay for education for their kids for how ever many years it takes them to be a doctor or lawyer or engineer. Very rarely does an Indian kid walks away with a student debt.
They will push and push and push their kids. And in the process they will push themselves. You will see that the Geography Bee and Spelling Bee has tons of Indian kids and their parents in the audience. This is just plain hard work. Work till there is nothing else in your life, kind of hard work.
And they do not assimilate. Why should they? This country did not invest in their education. They were the result of brain drain from India. They have paid taxes and were legal immigrants and have not been on welfare, since they arrived here. So they reject the "western" culture, before the "western culture" can reject them.
The idea is to be so well qualified, and have so many credentials that no one can deny them their rightful recognition and reward. Because we can depend on no one but ourselves.
Indians do not push their kids to satisfy their own ego. They push because they are afraid of their kids being treated unfairly.
This really resonates with me. I am an Immigrant Indian and have high expectations from my kids. I think the drive to make sure your kid excels at everything is due to the fear of them being treated unfairly. They have to be many times better to be at the same footing as White people.
Anonymous
12/13/2013 14:46
Subject: How do Indian and Asian parents do it?
most of the Indians I know from my parents' generation involve a dad who is an engineer and a sahm.