Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

Typical German arrogance. It's YOUR story because its your family. No one is going to give a rats ass in a few years when the rest of your family is dead and no one remembers.

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Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

The land that was given to the Jews was taken from the Palestinians. The land the Israelis continue to take is from the Palestinians. That UN sanctioned land grab created the destabilization of the Middle East and has resulted in the terrorism of today. You know like the Je wish terrorists that forced the UN to take Palestinian land for Israel The avoidant solution may have had a better chance of success if the Israelis had not decided to expand their original territories. You know the way the Germans did in the 1939s and 1940s.

Each of Israel's major "land grabs" have occurred under provocation. They were attacked and were legitimately defending themselves. Very different from what went on in Germany in the 30s. It's a very biased and prejudiced reading to say otherwise. Now the current problems with the settlements...I would tend to agree that those fall more under the category of "land grab." However, the expansion of these communities often follow terrorist attacks on the part of Palestinians so it's hard to say that they're *completely* unjustified. They definitely don't help the situation though, I agree with that.

As far as the creation of Israel, I don't know I'm kind of torn. I think it's too easy with hindsight to say "well they should have known this would happen." Is it really so unreasonable to expect people of different religions or ethnicities to be able to live together peacefully in the modern world? I mean, with hindsight, it obviously is but that is a very unfortunate conclusion to have to draw.

Why didn't the Jews originally have their own homeland? How did the UN decide to give that particular spot to them? Were the Palestinians okay with it when the UN made the decision?

The original Jewish state was conquered by the Romans and after a failed uprising, the Jews were dispersed (thus beginning the Diaspora). Palestine is a region that was formerly ruled by the Ottoman Empire for centuries which crumbled after their defeat in WWI. It then became a British protectorate. Britain ceded control to the UN in order to form the modern state of Israel after the war. No the Arabs were not happy about it but the world community (well really the West) did not believe they should have much of a say in the matter because they did not have a sovereign government.

Thanks for the explanation. Was the original Jewish state in the Palestine region?

yes, more or less. Capital city in Jerusalem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

The land that was given to the Jews was taken from the Palestinians. The land the Israelis continue to take is from the Palestinians. That UN sanctioned land grab created the destabilization of the Middle East and has resulted in the terrorism of today. You know like the Je wish terrorists that forced the UN to take Palestinian land for Israel The avoidant solution may have had a better chance of success if the Israelis had not decided to expand their original territories. You know the way the Germans did in the 1939s and 1940s.

Each of Israel's major "land grabs" have occurred under provocation. They were attacked and were legitimately defending themselves. Very different from what went on in Germany in the 30s. It's a very biased and prejudiced reading to say otherwise. Now the current problems with the settlements...I would tend to agree that those fall more under the category of "land grab." However, the expansion of these communities often follow terrorist attacks on the part of Palestinians so it's hard to say that they're *completely* unjustified. They definitely don't help the situation though, I agree with that.

As far as the creation of Israel, I don't know I'm kind of torn. I think it's too easy with hindsight to say "well they should have known this would happen." Is it really so unreasonable to expect people of different religions or ethnicities to be able to live together peacefully in the modern world? I mean, with hindsight, it obviously is but that is a very unfortunate conclusion to have to draw.

Why didn't the Jews originally have their own homeland? How did the UN decide to give that particular spot to them? Were the Palestinians okay with it when the UN made the decision?

The original Jewish state was conquered by the Romans and after a failed uprising, the Jews were dispersed (thus beginning the Diaspora). Palestine is a region that was formerly ruled by the Ottoman Empire for centuries which crumbled after their defeat in WWI. It then became a British protectorate. Britain ceded control to the UN in order to form the modern state of Israel after the war. No the Arabs were not happy about it but the world community (well really the West) did not believe they should have much of a say in the matter because they did not have a sovereign government.

Thanks for the explanation. Was the original Jewish state in the Palestine region?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

The land that was given to the Jews was taken from the Palestinians. The land the Israelis continue to take is from the Palestinians. That UN sanctioned land grab created the destabilization of the Middle East and has resulted in the terrorism of today. You know like the Je wish terrorists that forced the UN to take Palestinian land for Israel The avoidant solution may have had a better chance of success if the Israelis had not decided to expand their original territories. You know the way the Germans did in the 1939s and 1940s.

Each of Israel's major "land grabs" have occurred under provocation. They were attacked and were legitimately defending themselves. Very different from what went on in Germany in the 30s. It's a very biased and prejudiced reading to say otherwise. Now the current problems with the settlements...I would tend to agree that those fall more under the category of "land grab." However, the expansion of these communities often follow terrorist attacks on the part of Palestinians so it's hard to say that they're *completely* unjustified. They definitely don't help the situation though, I agree with that.

As far as the creation of Israel, I don't know I'm kind of torn. I think it's too easy with hindsight to say "well they should have known this would happen." Is it really so unreasonable to expect people of different religions or ethnicities to be able to live together peacefully in the modern world? I mean, with hindsight, it obviously is but that is a very unfortunate conclusion to have to draw.

Why didn't the Jews originally have their own homeland? How did the UN decide to give that particular spot to them? Were the Palestinians okay with it when the UN made the decision?

The original Jewish state was conquered by the Romans and after a failed uprising, the Jews were dispersed (thus beginning the Diaspora). Palestine is a region that was formerly ruled by the Ottoman Empire for centuries which crumbled after their defeat in WWI. It then became a British protectorate. Britain ceded control to the UN in order to form the modern state of Israel after the war. No the Arabs were not happy about it but the world community (well really the West) did not believe they should have much of a say in the matter because they did not have a sovereign government.

Why do Jews seem to be hated around the world? Is it because many of them are successful?

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to be a Jew to have an opinion about Germans. Jews and Roma do not have the last say. I don't care if every Jew has forgiven them, I don't have to. I feel that they tried to kill the human race and that I have a hard time forgetting.

Other people have also tried to wipe out entire sectors of a population too. Remember the Rwanda?

I've lived in a number of western, central, and eastern European countries. I don't judge any Jewish person for having antagonistic feelings toward Germany/Germans even today. But I can say that Germans by far and away have done more "soul searching" and work to come to terms with their sordid past than any other countries complicit in the Holocaust, including Austria (remember Hitler was Austrian, born and raised there, an Austrian citizen until 1932, and the Austrians greeted the Germans enthusiastically when they "annexed" it -- something they have been slow to acknowledge). Germans have very strict laws that target extreme right wing activity (including restrictions on speech and selling of any kind of Nazi memorabilia); students are taught in-depth lessons about the Nazi era and Germany's culpability and brought to concentration camps to see for themselves (contrast this with how much American students really learn about the Indian genocide or the horrors of slavery); and almost every day you can find a tv show or article somewhere about the Nazi era. Germans are constantly being reminded of the past lest they should ever repeat it. And one thing's for sure, Germans would never have elected Kurt Waldheim their chancellor.

Of course you can still find anti-semites in Germany, but officially the government and authorities try very hard to be extremely sensitive to the past and to relations with Jewish citizens and Israel. In comparison, elsewhere in Europe there has been little of the national collective soul searching over their roles in the deportation and murder of so many of their citizens. This is especially true in eastern Europe, where anti-semitisim it is still fairly rampant (http://ejewishphilanthropy.com/a-frightening-perspective-eastern-european-anti-semitism-seems-too-alive-and-well/) and where most of the 6 million Jews who were murdered during the Holocaust came from (Jewish Germans, who had been fairly well assimilated, were wealthier and had many ties to non-Jewish Germans and by comparison were able to escape at a much higher rate). Especially Hungary -- what's been going on there with the far-right Jobbik party is frightening.

Personally, if I were Jewish, it's Eastern Europe that would skeeve me out.

Everyone. Shut up.

You don't have to be a Jew to have an opinion about Germans. Jews and Roma do not have the last say. I don't care if every Jew has forgiven them, I don't have to. I feel that they tried to kill the human race and that I have a hard time forgetting.

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

Well, you know, we actually know the real story. Though it's true that we may not know the specific story of your specific family. On the other hand, "und als die Waffen verstummten, war kein einziger Nazi mehr zu sehen. Jeder war schon immer dagegen gewesen."

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

I'm a Jew and I love German cars! I used to be anti German cars because I did not want to be associated with the types of people who drove them (stuck up, rich people who think they own the road). Then I drove one. I can't go back.

I would love to hear the the story of your family. My Great-Grandfather was one of the organizers of the exodus. I two cousins who are holocaust survivors. One of them survived because of someone helping to hide them. It sucks when people make blanket generalizations. It shows just how ignorant people can be.

I am a Jew from Eastern Europe. My grandfather fought in WW2 and lost close friends and relatives in the Holocaust. He lives in Germany now. If hearing German spoken all the time or being surrounded by Germans makes him feel bad, he's never mentioned it. The people who murdered his family were not German -- they were Latvian, Ukrainian, Byelorussian... in much of E. Europe the locals were only too happy to "show initiative" when the Nazis arrived.

I have a close friend who is in her 70s. The stories she tells me sometimes sound almost exactly like my grandmother's stories. Hunger. Running until your little legs can't carry you any more. Mother picking you up, shaking you, telling you to keep running if you want to live. My grandmother was a Russian Jew, running form the advancing German army that killed all her relatives, except for a couple of men and boys who had already been called to the front lines, and survived. My friend was a German, running form the advancing Russian army that raped every woman in her city.

We are hosting an exchange student from Germany this year. She gets nervous at the sight of the Swastika in history textbooks and movies (it's forbidden!) and the orientation she had to undergo to come here emphasized that some of the people she meets will treat her differently because she is German. She is a very mature, kind, brilliant girl who does her country credit. There isn't much we can still teach her, except to emphasize that children are never to be held responsible for the sins of their fathers. And that in order to heal past wounds it is important to talk about them openly and honestly (and with a bit of humor.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

The land that was given to the Jews was taken from the Palestinians. The land the Israelis continue to take is from the Palestinians. That UN sanctioned land grab created the destabilization of the Middle East and has resulted in the terrorism of today. You know like the Je wish terrorists that forced the UN to take Palestinian land for Israel The avoidant solution may have had a better chance of success if the Israelis had not decided to expand their original territories. You know the way the Germans did in the 1939s and 1940s.

Each of Israel's major "land grabs" have occurred under provocation. They were attacked and were legitimately defending themselves. Very different from what went on in Germany in the 30s. It's a very biased and prejudiced reading to say otherwise. Now the current problems with the settlements...I would tend to agree that those fall more under the category of "land grab." However, the expansion of these communities often follow terrorist attacks on the part of Palestinians so it's hard to say that they're *completely* unjustified. They definitely don't help the situation though, I agree with that.

As far as the creation of Israel, I don't know I'm kind of torn. I think it's too easy with hindsight to say "well they should have known this would happen." Is it really so unreasonable to expect people of different religions or ethnicities to be able to live together peacefully in the modern world? I mean, with hindsight, it obviously is but that is a very unfortunate conclusion to have to draw.

Or so the Zionists would have you believe. I thought that was the case until I lived in Jerusalem and saw what the Shame Project revealed in their filming of Israelis soldiers pushing people their from their land at gunpoint. You can believe what you like but the reality is that Israel is the reason for the Middle East terrorism that plagues the world. England remains a major target because of the Balfour Declaration.

As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.