Anonymous wrote:"Poor" in the US doesn't mean the same thing as poor in other less developed countries. Poor here get food stamps, free housing and transportation subsidies which all means a lot more money goes to their satellite dishes, purses, cars and clothes. I'm shocked every time I drive past section 8 housing here, they ALL have satellite dishes. I don't even have cable!

This is why they don't have money for food - they spent it on indulgences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't done an angel tree in a while because I'm dead broke but when I did, I always went by the rule of thumb of picking families who were asking for things I would give my own family. If you don't like what they are asking for, move on to another family.

+1.

I agree. Don't get me wrong, my own kids will circle things like the $100 AG ski chalet and maybe that translates to the Journey Girl lodge with a coupon on sale. As a kid we circled the heck out of the Sears Wish Book, I mean a kid can dream, but our parents never got high price items. I've enjoyed giving items similar to what I would give my own family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not about spoiling. It is about humility. Who asks for a u$600.00 game system to strangers????!! Or even extended family?

Word. But I guess my family has never done Christmas "big." But if a kid isn't guided otherwise, I can see how they'd ask for that- perhaps a bit more guidance on the part of the charity would be helpful if the parents aren't providing it.

Also, those games aren't cheap. And the companies keep coming out with new versions of the system- my niece/nephew apparently was begging for a new XBox (or whatever system they have) for Christmas this year because the company is going to stop producing games for the version they have in a couple years. My SIL was like, but we just got it for you a couple years ago!

Instead of 3 gifts they would prefer 1 nice more expensive gift.
A game system does not cost $600, you can get them on sale for a lot less

I know that organizations control for things like this. My mother works for a church that does a giving tree, and when she personally calls the families and asks what kids want (adults too, for that matter), she has a system for dealing with big-ticket wishes. First, she saves those particular families for sponsors for whom money is no object. Second, if she doesn't think it's likely to pan out, she asks the people for a cheaper "second choice" in the event that donor families can also not afford the bigger ticket item.

But to be honest, 9 out of 10 people tell her the kids don't have warm boots (they live in a cold climate), or they tell her the little kid has his heart set on some $10 thing that is no issue at all. The vast majority of the people she deals with truly, truly need help of any kind. I think the others are outliers.

I became so discouraged with the local Angel tree requests that I began to contribute to charities in rural parts of my state where there are fewer people who can help. Those children ask for toys but they are more rational. Sadly they often ask for something like socks for fathers and sweaters for mothers or grandparents. It gives you a perspective on this area versus the rest of the country

Anonymous wrote:

It is not about spoiling. It is about humility. Who asks for a u$600.00 game system to strangers????!! Or even extended family?

Word. But I guess my family has never done Christmas "big." But if a kid isn't guided otherwise, I can see how they'd ask for that- perhaps a bit more guidance on the part of the charity would be helpful if the parents aren't providing it.

Also, those games aren't cheap. And the companies keep coming out with new versions of the system- my niece/nephew apparently was begging for a new XBox (or whatever system they have) for Christmas this year because the company is going to stop producing games for the version they have in a couple years. My SIL was like, but we just got it for you a couple years ago!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We're talking about poor kids who rarely get their wants fulfilled, and what makes Christmas special is that it is a time when they actually do get a chance to get something they really want. All the other stuff you talk about is fine, but on Christmas morning, no kid is hoping Santa brought some socks and underwear. Come on.

There's a lot of middle ground between "socks and underwear" and a fancy game system. C'mon.

And there's also a lot of middle ground between "getting their wants fulfilled" and "getting all their wants fulfilled." The person who said Christmas should be able time with family, sharing special meals, etc. else inserted the "all," like these kids were being greedy.

If a family has an absent parent and relies on food pantries, all that other "warm" Christmasy stuff is a lot harder to do. Is buying them a nice toy really spoiling them?

It is not about spoiling. It is about humility. Who asks for a u$600.00 game system to strangers????!! Or even extended family?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We're talking about poor kids who rarely get their wants fulfilled, and what makes Christmas special is that it is a time when they actually do get a chance to get something they really want. All the other stuff you talk about is fine, but on Christmas morning, no kid is hoping Santa brought some socks and underwear. Come on.

There's a lot of middle ground between "socks and underwear" and a fancy game system. C'mon.

And there's also a lot of middle ground between "getting their wants fulfilled" and "getting all their wants fulfilled." The person who said Christmas should be able time with family, sharing special meals, etc. else inserted the "all," like these kids were being greedy.

If a family has an absent parent and relies on food pantries, all that other "warm" Christmasy stuff is a lot harder to do. Is buying them a nice toy really spoiling them?

Not at all- again, this thread was started about big-ticket items. If people are willing/able to purchase these for a needy kid, great! And nothing wrong with giving a nice toy (or clothes) that doesn't cost 100s of dollars either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:parents sell food stamps for cigarette money. YOu know what they are going to do with an Xbox or leather jacket. Instead of breaking a child's hear by having the expensive gift taken away by a parent, give them something that has no street value so they can actually retain the gift. Before I am called a cunt, etc., I do know what I am talking about.

What state still uses paper food stamps? As far as I know, everything is on a debit card now. You can't sell food stamps anymore. They don't exist. They haven't existed for at least a decade.

There are still corrupt stores. One by me got busted for this a while ago. They sell ineligible items, fabricate sales, etc. people allow others to use their debit cards in exchange for cash. Fraud is way, way down compared to the old days, but it does still happen.

SNAP fraud is less than 1 cent of every dollar spent on food stamps. There's nothing else on that scale that has so little fraud. Get over it.

Look, I'm the person who posted that. I happen to completely agree with you. But to claim that it can't happen is factually incorrect. That's the only reason I pointed it out. It wasn't meant to suggest that it's widespread or that people should let it influence decisions to donate.

The list I received from a friend who's sponsoring one of these was quite reasonable - most asked for a gift card towards a portion of, say, an iPod or camera. I will be giving generously to these kids/teens as a result. They seemed to want to do some of the work toward the items themselves.

The little 5 year old girl who wants the princess bike? She'll be getting that for sure. Classically adorable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We're talking about poor kids who rarely get their wants fulfilled, and what makes Christmas special is that it is a time when they actually do get a chance to get something they really want. All the other stuff you talk about is fine, but on Christmas morning, no kid is hoping Santa brought some socks and underwear. Come on.

There's a lot of middle ground between "socks and underwear" and a fancy game system. C'mon.

And there's also a lot of middle ground between "getting their wants fulfilled" and "getting all their wants fulfilled." The person who said Christmas should be able time with family, sharing special meals, etc. else inserted the "all," like these kids were being greedy.

If a family has an absent parent and relies on food pantries, all that other "warm" Christmasy stuff is a lot harder to do. Is buying them a nice toy really spoiling them?

Anonymous wrote:Always surprising to see X-box, leather jacket, that kind of thing, on these trees. I know: "So don't pick that tag and don't buy that thing." However, the chutpah involved, especially in this economic environment, always gives me pause.

Those parents didn't end up where they are because they make good life decisions. I appreciate the sentiment behind angel trees, but I always find another way to give.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:parents sell food stamps for cigarette money. YOu know what they are going to do with an Xbox or leather jacket. Instead of breaking a child's hear by having the expensive gift taken away by a parent, give them something that has no street value so they can actually retain the gift. Before I am called a cunt, etc., I do know what I am talking about.

What state still uses paper food stamps? As far as I know, everything is on a debit card now. You can't sell food stamps anymore. They don't exist. They haven't existed for at least a decade.

There are still corrupt stores. One by me got busted for this a while ago. They sell ineligible items, fabricate sales, etc. people allow others to use their debit cards in exchange for cash. Fraud is way, way down compared to the old days, but it does still happen.

SNAP fraud is less than 1 cent of every dollar spent on food stamps. There's nothing else on that scale that has so little fraud. Get over it.

Anonymous wrote:Question here- this past month has flown by and I neglected to do an angel tree child this year- in the past I've gone through Salvation Army but just checked their website and all gifts need to be delivered by Dec 7! Not gonna happen. Can anyone recommend another local organization with a slightly later deadline? Thx.

I happened to be on the maternity floor of Inova Alexandria Hospital today and they have a small angel tree. Last pick up of gifts is December 23. Don't know if that's anywhere near you, but if they have one maybe your local hospital does as well.

Anonymous wrote:Yes I see this a lot. Lower SES people are a lot more materialistic and worry more on status symbols.

I used to believe that. I still think that the lower SES is materialistic, but so are the very wealthy. The fancy this and that when it makes no difference in quality of life.
Sadly, American poor people psych themselves out believing that they are destitute.