Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strangely, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, but not to the OP. The facts are compelling, but the tone of her posts is odd. It all sounds like "this isn't what I signed up for, so now I want a refund."

I think she will leave her husband, or he'll file for divorce, the husband will get primary custody, and she'll end up ordered to pay alimony and child support. Amazing what happens when the laws are gender-neutral.

Um no - I never said I want a refund. I just want my husband to get his head out of the clouds and come down to reality and be part of the team. So easy for people to make comments like yours when they are not in the same situation. Tell me
how happy and understanding you'd feel if you were me? Really, go back and read what's going on here. I'm pissed. Don't I have a right to be pissed? I came here to vent - sorry you don't like my "tone".

How do you think I feel when my family, friends or anyone asks me - hey has your husband found a job yet? How's his business going? They all look at me like I'm a pathetic little kitten. I'm the fucking sob story that everyone gets to talk about when they get together for drinks. I'm so goddamn embarrassed that I don't' even want to talk or go out with my friends anymore. Because you know why? All they do is talk about all the new furniture they bought, what outfit they should wear, where they went on vacation or where they went out to eat. Just bullshit materialistic crap. And then they look at me and don't know what to say. I wish my biggest problem was deciding what I'm going to wear tomorrow, or where our next vacation will be.

So not only do I have to worry everyday about money, where we are going to live, how we can feed our family and survive, but I also have to live with the shame of where my life is right now. Yes, I am ashamed. And anyone else who berates me for feeling this way has never walked a day in my shoes.

Not PP, but I have walked in your shoes and am walking in them. My DH lost his job a little over five years ago. Right now, he is a SAHD, but not by choice. He keeps saying he'll go back and look for a job soon. He also is going to pass the bar "soon." He has failed multiple times at this point and hasn't even bothered to study in over two years. All I hear is "when will he get a job?" and it was embarrassing to me for a long time.

Then, I did what one of the many PPs recommended, and sat down and made my choice on my own, without anyone else's input and without my husband. Here are the terms of what I can support on my pay check; here are the things I cannot support. With that lifestyle, do I love the good qualities my husband has more than the downside of living with him unemployed and everything that entails? Do I respect him as a man without a job? I decided I did and made my peace with that. If the kids are 12 and we are still here, I imagine I'll make the same analysis again. It sounds cold, but to avoid being a simmering, ashamed mess of a person who is constantly fraught with worry, I had to do it. The situation was ruining my life. To be clear, the financial worries aren't any better after doing this, but at least I'm more in an "it is what it is" zen place about the situation.

Anonymous wrote:Strangely, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, but not to the OP. The facts are compelling, but the tone of her posts is odd. It all sounds like "this isn't what I signed up for, so now I want a refund."

I think she will leave her husband, or he'll file for divorce, the husband will get primary custody, and she'll end up ordered to pay alimony and child support. Amazing what happens when the laws are gender-neutral.

Um no - I never said I want a refund. I just want my husband to get his head out of the clouds and come down to reality and be part of the team. So easy for people to make comments like yours when they are not in the same situation. Tell me
how happy and understanding you'd feel if you were me? Really, go back and read what's going on here. I'm pissed. Don't I have a right to be pissed? I came here to vent - sorry you don't like my "tone".

How do you think I feel when my family, friends or anyone asks me - hey has your husband found a job yet? How's his business going? They all look at me like I'm a pathetic little kitten. I'm the fucking sob story that everyone gets to talk about when they get together for drinks. I'm so goddamn embarrassed that I don't' even want to talk or go out with my friends anymore. Because you know why? All they do is talk about all the new furniture they bought, what outfit they should wear, where they went on vacation or where they went out to eat. Just bullshit materialistic crap. And then they look at me and don't know what to say. I wish my biggest problem was deciding what I'm going to wear tomorrow, or where our next vacation will be.

So not only do I have to worry everyday about money, where we are going to live, how we can feed our family and survive, but I also have to live with the shame of where my life is right now. Yes, I am ashamed. And anyone else who berates me for feeling this way has never walked a day in my shoes.

Strangely, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, but not to the OP. The facts are compelling, but the tone of her posts is odd. It all sounds like "this isn't what I signed up for, so now I want a refund."

I think she will leave her husband, or he'll file for divorce, the husband will get primary custody, and she'll end up ordered to pay alimony and child support. Amazing what happens when the laws are gender-neutral.

OP, want to share my experience with you. I hope it's helpful. I know my situation was not exactly the same as yours, but maybe you find something in this.

My DH has several periods where he didn't earn a paycheck. The longest being about 2 years. His self-esteem really plummeted, and this led to him becoming less and less active in seeking employment. I felt like you - I had supported my DH through his MBA (top 20 school) with the thinking that he would be at least a 50% contributor in terms of income to the marriage. I actually secretly hoped that he would take over the primary breadwinner role so that I could have a "fun" (but not as high-paying) job or go part-time, even SAH. I was resentful.

What happened to turn things around:

(1) I accepted my role as primary breadwinner. I accepted the fact that I'm fortunate in being able to support my family on my paycheck and that like most people, I'm not destined for a "fun" job (or no paid job). I stopped "blaming" DH for the fact that I couldn't just quit my real-work kind of job for a fun one.

(2) DH and I brainstormed a plan for him. There were no preconceived notions around this - ie, that he must earn X amount of money, or that he must get his money's worth for his MBA. Instead, we did really broad thinking about things he enjoys/feels connections, the kind of environment he would like to work in, and then thought about what kind of role within that environment might fit.

(3) DH decided that he was interested in working in fundraising for a non-profit. It didn't require an MBA, didn't pay an MBA salary (at least, not in the vast majority of positions), but the environment held appeal for him and it seemed like it would draw on his skills. To find a job where he had no contacts, this is what he did:
- volunteer (yes, for free, while DD was in daycare) at more than one organization
- ask everyone he know for contacts in the area of nonprofits he was interested in - and actively network by making coffee appointments, etc. (yes, while DD was in daycare)
- follow up with the contacts of contacts

(4) It took 1.5 years of this, but then DH got his break. A paid position fundraising for a non-profit. That was 8 years ago, he still works in this field, has had several promotions/career moves in the meantime, and his self-esteem is back. He earns less than what we "expected" from an MBA, but he is really happy and this field is a great fit for him.

I know that you are struggling with your DH's longer period of unemployment, anger/hostility issues (if anyone was throwing anything in my marriage when my DH was unemployed, it was me, out of frustration - my DH was cowed by the experience and would only nod his head to agree that he needed to find a job). But I hope my story helps you to try to find a way to work things out.

From this point in my life, I can say I am very happy that we didn't give up on our marriage. Also, I actually do not feel resentful in the slightest about my job. I enjoy it and don't pine to SAH or for some other job. I'm happy that DH enjoys his work and isn't working 70 hour weeks as a consultant, and that parenting obligations fall on us 50/50.

Anonymous wrote:I find the suggestions to divorce him or offer an ultimatum astonishing. Switch genders: now how does this sound? I agree with the PP who said that, if a man wrote this post arguing that his SAH wife needed to get a job or he was considering divorce, comments would be resoundingly against him.

Also, OP, can you have a little compassion for the guy? Long-term unemployment sucks away people's confidence. It is expecially hard on men. He probably isn't doing much because he feels diminished and frozen. This is someone whom you presumably love -- quit feeling sorry for yourself and consider how he feels.

This has nothing to do with gender. The OP has had to short sale her home which means her credit is WRECKED.

It's like sitting on a sinking boat and having a person refuse to help throw water overboard when they are fully able bodied.

And a lot of men do complain about their stay at home wives. I visit a financial forum and the amount of men who bish about this is astonishing. It's amazing how grown adults think it's someone eles's job to finance them.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Maybe I am sexist. I'm a traditional person. I expect a man to be able to provide. I provide too. I don't expect to stay home. If he's unemployed for 1 year, fine, but 3+ years and no end in sight?? Yes, I am embarrassed. I do not know ANYONE who's husband has been out of work for 3+ years, and hasn't tried to find some kind of job.

I think he is depressed and this is contributing to it, but I also think he refuses to put his pride aside and just get ANY job to help contribute financially. He has his head in the sand and thinks everything will magically get better. I on the other hand have my eyes wide open and I know where we are financially. He doesn't even bother to ask. Maybe so he can still pretend everything is OK.

I cannot handle it alone, and I personally think he is trying to "build a business" so that he doesn't have to take a lower level job. its his excuse to not look. This business of his is not making any money and I don't see it happening ever. So yes I am pissed off and I am mentally breaking down. He does not communicate with me and closes down completely. Any time I try to talk about all of this shit, he just blows up at me like its world war III. Like I have no right to ask.

I feel completely alone in all of this. He refuses to talk to me, or think about trying something else, and just goes off to his room and looks at his iPhone all night. Its all so fucking depressing I can barely come up for air.

Its no way to live.

My friend's husband is 10+ years out of work for many of the reasons you have stated here - head in the sand, thought something would fall in his lap, when it didn't his ego was crushed, hard to rebound, etc. She has lost ALL respect for him.

Anonymous wrote:

..in debt, couldn't buy a house, that they can't live a decent life

Ok, folks, let's think about what some posters on these boards mean by a "decent life." "In debt" can mean student loan debt from law shcool, or it could mean drowning in credit card debt because you are using credit cards to pay monthly expenses. "Can't buy a house" is very different than "we lost our house." Give PPs a little credit.

You forgot they need money.

..in debt, couldn't buy a house, that they can't live a decent life

Ok, folks, let's think about what some posters on these boards mean by a "decent life." "In debt" can mean student loan debt from law shcool, or it could mean drowning in credit card debt because you are using credit cards to pay monthly expenses. "Can't buy a house" is very different than "we lost our house." Give PPs a little credit.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP -- I am not sure we all processed that the situation was that dire. It sounds like this is much more than "I think a man should support me." If you guys are in a financial crisis, he should be trying harder to help (although it's not like childcare is cheap, so him getting any old job might not be the solution). It sounds like he is deep denial. If you cannot afford counseling, I highly recommend Dave Ramsey's book on finances -- see if he would be willing for you guys to read it together.

She said they were in debt, couldn't buy a house, that they can't live a decent life, and they need money. What part was confusing? Everyone just wanted to jump on her for thinking that a man should help support the family. As she is.

Sorry, OP -- I am not sure we all processed that the situation was that dire. It sounds like this is much more than "I think a man should support me." If you guys are in a financial crisis, he should be trying harder to help (although it's not like childcare is cheap, so him getting any old job might not be the solution). It sounds like he is deep denial. If you cannot afford counseling, I highly recommend Dave Ramsey's book on finances -- see if he would be willing for you guys to read it together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the suggestions to divorce him or offer an ultimatum astonishing. Switch genders: now how does this sound? I agree with the PP who said that, if a man wrote this post arguing that his SAH wife needed to get a job or he was considering divorce, comments would be resoundingly against him.

Also, OP, can you have a little compassion for the guy? Long-term unemployment sucks away people's confidence. It is expecially hard on men. He probably isn't doing much because he feels diminished and frozen. This is someone whom you presumably love -- quit feeling sorry for yourself and consider how he feels.

Why is that?

Not the poster you're quoting, but many people hold the same opinion as the OP that a man's job is to provide financially for his family. When you end up in a situation where you are unable to fulfill your primary obligation, it's demoralizing and stressful. I hate to quit harping on the gender roles that are at play here and the degree to which they are toxic, but come on. The OP has said on several occasions that her respect and love for her husband is diminished because he is not employed. If you turned that around and had a man say "My wife cares for our child during the week and takes care of the house, and is trying to get a small business off the ground, but I just don't respect or love her anymore because she's not bringing in a paycheck", everyone on this board would be jumping down his throat about it.

You're having a theoretical and philosophical conversation. That won't pay the bills. OP isn't asking for assistance on how to get back to a position of respect for her husband because it hurts her heart that she feels this way. She's having practical problems of paying the bills. He needs to put his big boy pants on and get a job. That's what people say on this board all the time regardless of gender.

OP again, to reiterate what a PP said - we are deeply in debt from medical bills, him being unemployed etc. Things would be a lot more tolerable if we didn't have all of this to deal with. However, we are never going to to get out of this hole on my income alone.

I don't need some fancy lifestyle, I just want to be able to cover expenses, save some money, save for retirement/college and actually have a home. Did I mention that we had to sell our home as a short sale?...does that change anyone else's mind about how I feel? Would anyone else in my shoes be OK and have compassion for their husband after going through all of this? I doubt it.

He has agreed to go to counseling, but who knows what will happen. I think its worth trying but I don't have my hopes up. DC adores him and it would be devastating to him. But I am really at my wits end. I don't know what else to do except hope that a counselor can help him see that what he's doing (or not doing) may possibly break up his family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the suggestions to divorce him or offer an ultimatum astonishing. Switch genders: now how does this sound? I agree with the PP who said that, if a man wrote this post arguing that his SAH wife needed to get a job or he was considering divorce, comments would be resoundingly against him.

Also, OP, can you have a little compassion for the guy? Long-term unemployment sucks away people's confidence. It is expecially hard on men. He probably isn't doing much because he feels diminished and frozen. This is someone whom you presumably love -- quit feeling sorry for yourself and consider how he feels.

Why is that?

Not the poster you're quoting, but many people hold the same opinion as the OP that a man's job is to provide financially for his family. When you end up in a situation where you are unable to fulfill your primary obligation, it's demoralizing and stressful. I hate to quit harping on the gender roles that are at play here and the degree to which they are toxic, but come on. The OP has said on several occasions that her respect and love for her husband is diminished because he is not employed. If you turned that around and had a man say "My wife cares for our child during the week and takes care of the house, and is trying to get a small business off the ground, but I just don't respect or love her anymore because she's not bringing in a paycheck", everyone on this board would be jumping down his throat about it.

Anonymous wrote:I find the suggestions to divorce him or offer an ultimatum astonishing. Switch genders: now how does this sound? I agree with the PP who said that, if a man wrote this post arguing that his SAH wife needed to get a job or he was considering divorce, comments would be resoundingly against him.

Also, OP, can you have a little compassion for the guy? Long-term unemployment sucks away people's confidence. It is expecially hard on men. He probably isn't doing much because he feels diminished and frozen. This is someone whom you presumably love -- quit feeling sorry for yourself and consider how he feels.

Why is that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But OP is working. Why does she need DH to provide for her financially. Looks like what she wants is a two income lifestyle on a single income budget - ain't gonna happen."

You apparently did not read that OP's family is in debt. This isn't about her being spoiled, it is about her being stressed that they have serious financial problems and her H isn't stepping up to help.

I was raised that one does whatever is necessary to make sure your family's finances are in order. In my book, whether male or female, with young or grown kids, planned or unplanned SAHP, anyone at home not bringing in income needs to find a way to help bring in income (waiting tables, bartending, stocking grocery shelves in the evening, whathaveyou) when the family is in debt.

I guess if you have the wrong kind of debt. However, I've been after my SAHW to start bringing in income for five years. Yes,at age 40, despite her Ivy League education, she should do whatever is necessary. However, she feels entitled. I made her that way. My bad.

You have posted several times on this thread about your situation and you are clearly distressed about it. Have you been to counseling with your wife? If a spouse SAH it should be a joint decision, and if one partner's feelings change about it over time, the decision should be revisited.