Anonymous
12/10/2013 21:40
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
I am not saying much other than stating some facts to correct what some ignorami were spreading here. The original post by OP was written from the perspective of an American potentially studying abroad, but later the thread evolved into a comparative discussion of European vs American systems from their respective, local perspectives. For better or worse, and as a general statement, European still get access to great universities at very affordable tuition fees.
You know, you're right - Europeans are able to get access to great educations at a lower cost than US students. The fact remains, though, that you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The systems are different and offer vastly different experiences.
However, quite frankly you could have said the above about the relative cost of education in Europe as compared to the US much sooner and without the continued and unnecessary vitriol directed to US universities and Americans in general. I don't know where in Europe you are from since you haven't identified yourself, but you have not represented them very well. Most people with a common sense of respect know that putting people on the defensive and continuing to "throw stones" simply does not help you. I'm going to assume you are not in the diplomatic corps...
Here is a bold idea: perhaps there is more than one European in this thread? Because I have not added any vitriol to this discussion, so I don't know what you are talking about. Think twice before you make ad hominem comments.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 21:34
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:We are immigrants from Europe and will be sending our kids to college there. The US prices are ridiculous and totally unjustified except perhaps for the very top schools. I am amazed how many American parents take 250k college bills as a given and even decide on their family size based on paying million dollar tuitions down the road.
I am from Europe too and I completely agree.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 18:51
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:
You know, you're right - Europeans are able to get access to great educations at a lower cost than US students. The fact remains, though, that you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The systems are different and offer vastly different experiences.
However, quite frankly you could have said the above about the relative cost of education in Europe as compared to the US much sooner and without the continued and unnecessary vitriol directed to US universities and Americans in general. I don't know where in Europe you are from since you haven't identified yourself, but you have not represented them very well. Most people with a common sense of respect know that putting people on the defensive and continuing to "throw stones" simply does not help you. I'm going to assume you are not in the diplomatic corps...
+1. Well put.
I don't think this particular foreign PP is here to have a discussion. She's here to pick a fight, or several fights.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 18:12
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
I am not saying much other than stating some facts to correct what some ignorami were spreading here. The original post by OP was written from the perspective of an American potentially studying abroad, but later the thread evolved into a comparative discussion of European vs American systems from their respective, local perspectives. For better or worse, and as a general statement, European still get access to great universities at very affordable tuition fees.
You know, you're right - Europeans are able to get access to great educations at a lower cost than US students. The fact remains, though, that you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The systems are different and offer vastly different experiences.
However, quite frankly you could have said the above about the relative cost of education in Europe as compared to the US much sooner and without the continued and unnecessary vitriol directed to US universities and Americans in general. I don't know where in Europe you are from since you haven't identified yourself, but you have not represented them very well. Most people with a common sense of respect know that putting people on the defensive and continuing to "throw stones" simply does not help you. I'm going to assume you are not in the diplomatic corps...
Anonymous
12/10/2013 16:00
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
I am not saying much other than stating some facts to correct what some ignorami were spreading here. The original post by OP was written from the perspective of an American potentially studying abroad, but later the thread evolved into a comparative discussion of European vs American systems from their respective, local perspectives. For better or worse, and as a general statement, European still get access to great universities at very affordable tuition fees.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 15:48
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 15:45
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
Wow. You are a real jackass. What country are you from, again?
Anonymous
12/10/2013 14:35
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
And..."The Home-Scotland/EU rate of fee has not yet been confirmed (for 2014-2015) by the Scottish Government but the indicative fee is £1,820."
http://www.docs.sasg.ed.ac.uk/fees/undergraduate_2014-2015.cfm?sorter=Programme_Name
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
Anonymous
12/10/2013 12:26
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
What are you talking about? 2 years ago there was a huge uproar in the UK because of the tuition increase - it went up to about 9,000 pounds and even more for an international applicant. If you do the currency exchange and then add in travel and living costs that doesn't make it much cheaper than going to an in-state public university in the US (which despite your derision are excellent universities). Several of my friends who are UK residents were pissed about it! Universities in other European countries may be slightly cheaper, but not for international students. My family and friends in Italy are also in a tizzy about the rise in tuition costs. And again, factor in the living expenses since European universities do not have living arrangements available - most students simply live at home.
European universities are excellent - no one is arguing that, but they aren't the greatest thing. Just ask a European who is willing to be honest (not a random, mean-spirited one who posts anonymously online…) and they will tell you the downfall of their system. Since in most cases you need to start deciding your area of study during the high school years you have people who are stuck with something they chose at the age of 15 or something that was chosen by their parents. Pretty limiting in life.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 12:05
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
No, that would be me, a different PP. I am not sure what fundamental mistakes I am making, though.
Various posters besides me have pointed out how ignorant you are about US universities and, surprisingly, how ignorant you are about European universities. I don't think anybody here has said the US system is perfect. But in your case, you need to actually read the responses to your posts, and you might learn something.
I read all the responses and all I saw was a good old American jingoism. I didn't find anything worth learning about in those posts though, in principle, I am open to it and have followed discussions on some of the threads with interest.
Uh huh. You need to do some self-examination. Good bye.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 11:58
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
No, that would be me, a different PP. I am not sure what fundamental mistakes I am making, though.
Various posters besides me have pointed out how ignorant you are about US universities and, surprisingly, how ignorant you are about European universities. I don't think anybody here has said the US system is perfect. But in your case, you need to actually read the responses to your posts, and you might learn something.
I read all the responses and all I saw was a good old American jingoism. I didn't find anything worth learning about in those posts though, in principle, I am open to it and have followed discussions on some of the threads with interest.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 11:50
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:
No, that would be me, a different PP. I am not sure what fundamental mistakes I am making, though.
Various posters besides me have pointed out how ignorant you are about US universities and, surprisingly, how ignorant you are about European universities. I don't think anybody here has said the US system is perfect. But in your case, you need to actually read the responses to your posts, and you might learn something.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 11:08
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the ones I know about do not ask for parents incomeAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
PS, it's hard to get a spot at British universities. It's based on testing, and if you don't come from a middle class background and/or attended crappy schools, it's more difficult.
Newsflash: Scotland and Wales aren't the rest of Europe, either.
Are you the European who claims to have attended Harvard (but keeps making fundamental mistakes about US colleges) and who loves bashing Americans and American universities? I don't think it's perfect here, by any means. But you need a new hobby: your posts here make you look small, petulant, and stupid.
No, that would be me, a different PP. I am not sure what fundamental mistakes I am making, though.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 09:56
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
PS, it's hard to get a spot at British universities. It's based on testing, and if you don't come from a middle class background and/or attended crappy schools, it's more difficult.
Newsflash: Scotland and Wales aren't the rest of Europe, either.
Are you the European who claims to have attended Harvard (but keeps making fundamental mistakes about US colleges) and who loves bashing Americans and American universities? I don't think it's perfect here, by any means. But you need a new hobby: your posts here make you look small, petulant, and stupid.
even in America, if you did not attend a fancy private or an exclusive public, the same story
I said it wasn't perfect here - try reading other peoples' posts.
But I also said you look small, petulant and stupid. Re-read that, too.
Anonymous
12/10/2013 09:53
Subject: Foreign Universities...
Anonymous wrote:
PS, it's hard to get a spot at British universities. It's based on testing, and if you don't come from a middle class background and/or attended crappy schools, it's more difficult.
Newsflash: Scotland and Wales aren't the rest of Europe, either.
Are you the European who claims to have attended Harvard (but keeps making fundamental mistakes about US colleges) and who loves bashing Americans and American universities? I don't think it's perfect here, by any means. But you need a new hobby: your posts here make you look small, petulant, and stupid.
even in America, if you did not attend a fancy private or an exclusive public, the same story