Anonymous
11/08/2013 23:34
Subject: Re:Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Basis had a algebra II class last year with only 8 students. 4 were from the 6th grade. The class scored highest among all Basis Algebra II classes including Tuscon and Scottsdale which are ranked at the very top of all schools in the country. Also all the Basis schools take the same final exam which is prepared by Basis corporate so the results can be compared across schools. If there are are 8 at Basis alone, there must be at least 20-100 more city wide. Easily enough to create a city wide class/school that is at the same level as TJ (but maybe smaller). The kids do skew white and male, but there are girls too and different ethnicities in the group as well and special needs kids to boot. The chances that DCPS will make an effort for this group are in short term are _________________? (Probably nill.) If the kids skewed black the chances would be _____________? (probably pretty good. ) Am I imagining this or is it flat out bigotry.
Well this year, the kids taking Algebra 2 in 6th grade are 50/50 when it comes to diversity so maybe there is hope that some day DCPS will add a truly rigorous test in school. I honestly do not think DCPS should base the need for such a school on skin color but instead should base it on need. Even if such a school starts out skewing white, it does not necessarily have to stay that way and gives students something to aspire to. If DCPS truly starts adding rigor tailored to every kid and high expectations for all students, then it will help such a school to not skew white.
Anonymous
11/08/2013 23:23
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
How did they water it down? I know that a few years back a commission studied the racial demographics of the school, but declined to do a "soft" affirmative action plan. Instead, the school was commissioned to do a marketing outreach in the Black and Hispanic communities, to no avail. Apparently Blacks and Hispanics had little interest in applying. I only bring that up because when people on DCUM say that academics are watered down, the implication is that Blacks and Hispanics were allowed in based on their race and not merit. Well you can't say that for TJ, for those groups make up less than 5% total of TJ's population. That wide-spread cheating and remedial classes at TJ is a result of the Asians and white students. But oh no, you say. There is no reason for white and Asian kids to cheat, for they are so academically and intellectual superior. Well at least in the minds of the DCUM moms. Face it, The kids at TJ can pay to take those test prep classes (yes, it is a cottage industry in Fairfax), but once accepted, many are cheating to stay.
They actually made the math test much easier. In doing this it made it easier to "study" for and doesn't do a good job of differentiating kids who are great at math vs. those who are merely good and crammed a lot for the exam. They made the test easier in an attempt to bolster AA and Hispanic attendance, but all it seemed to do was open the door for over prepped kids who aren't really up to the challenges.
They did not; they made it harder. Are the white superioity troll?
According to the Washington Post the admissions process was made easier at TJ resulting in more students at TJ needing remediation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/math-and-science-gaps-found-at-elite-fairfax-school/2012/05/30/gJQAmT2s2U_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-new-thomas-jefferson-it-includes-remedial-math/2012/05/25/gJQAlZRYqU_story.html
Any links to back up your assertions that TJ made the test harder? Someone stating the facts does not make them a white superiority troll.
Anonymous
11/08/2013 22:13
Subject: Re:Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Basis had a algebra II class last year with only 8 students. 4 were from the 6th grade. The class scored highest among all Basis Algebra II classes including Tuscon and Scottsdale which are ranked at the very top of all schools in the country. Also all the Basis schools take the same final exam which is prepared by Basis corporate so the results can be compared across schools. If there are are 8 at Basis alone, there must be at least 20-100 more city wide. Easily enough to create a city wide class/school that is at the same level as TJ (but maybe smaller). The kids do skew white and male, but there are girls too and different ethnicities in the group as well and special needs kids to boot. The chances that DCPS will make an effort for this group are in short term are _________________? (Probably nill.) If the kids skewed black the chances would be _____________? (probably pretty good. ) Am I imagining this or is it flat out bigotry.
Anonymous
11/08/2013 12:11
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
How did they water it down? I know that a few years back a commission studied the racial demographics of the school, but declined to do a "soft" affirmative action plan. Instead, the school was commissioned to do a marketing outreach in the Black and Hispanic communities, to no avail. Apparently Blacks and Hispanics had little interest in applying. I only bring that up because when people on DCUM say that academics are watered down, the implication is that Blacks and Hispanics were allowed in based on their race and not merit. Well you can't say that for TJ, for those groups make up less than 5% total of TJ's population. That wide-spread cheating and remedial classes at TJ is a result of the Asians and white students. But oh no, you say. There is no reason for white and Asian kids to cheat, for they are so academically and intellectual superior. Well at least in the minds of the DCUM moms. Face it, The kids at TJ can pay to take those test prep classes (yes, it is a cottage industry in Fairfax), but once accepted, many are cheating to stay.
They actually made the math test much easier. In doing this it made it easier to "study" for and doesn't do a good job of differentiating kids who are great at math vs. those who are merely good and crammed a lot for the exam. They made the test easier in an attempt to bolster AA and Hispanic attendance, but all it seemed to do was open the door for over prepped kids who aren't really up to the challenges.
They did not; they made it harder. Are the white superioity troll?
Anonymous
11/07/2013 22:37
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
I am not buying it that there are not the numbers to support a school as rigorous as TJ. There are plenty of kids attending private and charter schools who could make the cut. Also, DCPS has plenty of schools with several hundred students so why not offer a test in as rigorous as TJ? You also forget that the demographics in the city are rapidly changing as well.
As for the current test in schools in DC, they cannot hold a candle to TJ at all. They are not even in the same league. As for placing such a school in the likes of Dunbar, what a joke. I am not sure I would feel that my kid would be safe in Dunbar.
+1
Anonymous
10/09/2013 21:09
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
So what is the solution? Not offering any test in school like TJ since it may skew white? That is preposterous in my opinion since every student should have the opportunity to be challenged. I do not think a school like TJ should be dumbed down just to accommodate students who may be less fortunate in academic terms. Shall we just offer flag football so that those who are not athletically talented may make the cut and play? Instead, I think all students should be afforded rigorous curricula which is often not the case with flexible ability grouping and supports to help those in need.
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
BASIS
Anonymous
10/08/2013 20:15
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
I am not buying it that there are not the numbers to support a school as rigorous as TJ. There are plenty of kids attending private and charter schools who could make the cut. Also, DCPS has plenty of schools with several hundred students so why not offer a test in as rigorous as TJ? You also forget that the demographics in the city are rapidly changing as well.
As for the current test in schools in DC, they cannot hold a candle to TJ at all. They are not even in the same league. As for placing such a school in the likes of Dunbar, what a joke. I am not sure I would feel that my kid would be safe in Dunbar.
Run the numbers based on demographics and you will see there most certainly are enough bright kids - but most flee DC public schools for lack of a solid offering. No, there's no comparing DCPS test-in schools to TJ because they weren't modeled after TJ and have nowhere near as solid of an offering. It's a huge gap for DCPS.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 18:12
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
How did they water it down? I know that a few years back a commission studied the racial demographics of the school, but declined to do a "soft" affirmative action plan. Instead, the school was commissioned to do a marketing outreach in the Black and Hispanic communities, to no avail. Apparently Blacks and Hispanics had little interest in applying. I only bring that up because when people on DCUM say that academics are watered down, the implication is that Blacks and Hispanics were allowed in based on their race and not merit. Well you can't say that for TJ, for those groups make up less than 5% total of TJ's population. That wide-spread cheating and remedial classes at TJ is a result of the Asians and white students. But oh no, you say. There is no reason for white and Asian kids to cheat, for they are so academically and intellectual superior. Well at least in the minds of the DCUM moms. Face it, The kids at TJ can pay to take those test prep classes (yes, it is a cottage industry in Fairfax), but once accepted, many are cheating to stay.
I was speaking of the increased need for remedial classes not the episodes of cheating at TJ which unfortunately can happen at any school regardless of admission policies. I also said nothing of superiority as well. I think all students should be afforded rigorous curricula and supports in ability grouped classrooms with frequent re-assessments to assure proper class placements.
This article speaks of the watered down changes in the admissions process at TJ:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-new-thomas-jefferson-it-includes-remedial-math/2012/05/25/gJQAlZRYqU_story.html
Anonymous
10/08/2013 18:08
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
How did they water it down? I know that a few years back a commission studied the racial demographics of the school, but declined to do a "soft" affirmative action plan. Instead, the school was commissioned to do a marketing outreach in the Black and Hispanic communities, to no avail. Apparently Blacks and Hispanics had little interest in applying. I only bring that up because when people on DCUM say that academics are watered down, the implication is that Blacks and Hispanics were allowed in based on their race and not merit. Well you can't say that for TJ, for those groups make up less than 5% total of TJ's population. That wide-spread cheating and remedial classes at TJ is a result of the Asians and white students. But oh no, you say. There is no reason for white and Asian kids to cheat, for they are so academically and intellectual superior. Well at least in the minds of the DCUM moms. Face it, The kids at TJ can pay to take those test prep classes (yes, it is a cottage industry in Fairfax), but once accepted, many are cheating to stay.
They actually made the math test much easier. In doing this it made it easier to "study" for and doesn't do a good job of differentiating kids who are great at math vs. those who are merely good and crammed a lot for the exam. They made the test easier in an attempt to bolster AA and Hispanic attendance, but all it seemed to do was open the door for over prepped kids who aren't really up to the challenges.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 17:57
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
How did they water it down? I know that a few years back a commission studied the racial demographics of the school, but declined to do a "soft" affirmative action plan. Instead, the school was commissioned to do a marketing outreach in the Black and Hispanic communities, to no avail. Apparently Blacks and Hispanics had little interest in applying. I only bring that up because when people on DCUM say that academics are watered down, the implication is that Blacks and Hispanics were allowed in based on their race and not merit. Well you can't say that for TJ, for those groups make up less than 5% total of TJ's population. That wide-spread cheating and remedial classes at TJ is a result of the Asians and white students. But oh no, you say. There is no reason for white and Asian kids to cheat, for they are so academically and intellectual superior. Well at least in the minds of the DCUM moms. Face it, The kids at TJ can pay to take those test prep classes (yes, it is a cottage industry in Fairfax), but once accepted, many are cheating to stay.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 16:25
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
That is probably because TJ watered down their admission standards to admit students who are not prepared for the rigor a few years back.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 15:45
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
I am not buying it that there are not the numbers to support a school as rigorous as TJ. There are plenty of kids attending private and charter schools who could make the cut. Also, DCPS has plenty of schools with several hundred students so why not offer a test in as rigorous as TJ? You also forget that the demographics in the city are rapidly changing as well.
As for the current test in schools in DC, they cannot hold a candle to TJ at all. They are not even in the same league. As for placing such a school in the likes of Dunbar, what a joke. I am not sure I would feel that my kid would be safe in Dunbar.
According to the Virginia school threads, TJ has a big cheating problem on top of many students taking remedial classes in English and math.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 15:21
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
I am not buying it that there are not the numbers to support a school as rigorous as TJ. There are plenty of kids attending private and charter schools who could make the cut. Also, DCPS has plenty of schools with several hundred students so why not offer a test in as rigorous as TJ? You also forget that the demographics in the city are rapidly changing as well.
As for the current test in schools in DC, they cannot hold a candle to TJ at all. They are not even in the same league. As for placing such a school in the likes of Dunbar, what a joke. I am not sure I would feel that my kid would be safe in Dunbar.
Anonymous
10/08/2013 14:23
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Woodson isn't DCPS "STEM" school. DCPS has slapped the title "STEM" on a lot of different schools...
McKinley Tech is probably more in line with a true STEM model.
As for numbers not supporting a TJ or Blair (the magnet program in Blair) that's probably true because both school systems are some of the largest in the country. And it may skew largely white simply because in DC, white is almost always middle to high SES; its very rarely low SES. And that makes a HUGE difference. Too many studies have been done to verify that point. If mommy and daddy can hire you a private tutor then of course you will do better than the kids whose parents are working two or three jobs to make ends meet and who lack the skill set to support successful homework completion.
So what is the solution? Not offering any test in school like TJ since it may skew white? That is preposterous in my opinion since every student should have the opportunity to be challenged. I do not think a school like TJ should be dumbed down just to accommodate students who may be less fortunate in academic terms. Shall we just offer flag football so that those who are not athletically talented may make the cut and play? Instead, I think all students should be afforded rigorous curricula which is often not the case with flexible ability grouping and supports to help those in need.
DC does offer several 'test in' high schools. However, there is a huge difference between DC and Fairfax and Montgomery County in the number of students that a specialized high school can support. Its not about dumbing down a program. And in reality, no matter what school a child attends, they should be challenged. Its harder to do if the number of students who are advanced is low, but the school has the responsibility to find ways to meet the needs of the child. I think, to some degree, DCPS has gotten off the hook because rather than push for such programs, parents have opted to move or go private. Perhaps such a program could be a 'schol within a school' like it is at Blair. Dunbar might be a great place to try this--new building, central location...
Anonymous
10/08/2013 10:47
Subject: Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Woodson isn't DCPS "STEM" school. DCPS has slapped the title "STEM" on a lot of different schools...
McKinley Tech is probably more in line with a true STEM model.
As for numbers not supporting a TJ or Blair (the magnet program in Blair) that's probably true because both school systems are some of the largest in the country. And it may skew largely white simply because in DC, white is almost always middle to high SES; its very rarely low SES. And that makes a HUGE difference. Too many studies have been done to verify that point. If mommy and daddy can hire you a private tutor then of course you will do better than the kids whose parents are working two or three jobs to make ends meet and who lack the skill set to support successful homework completion.
So what is the solution? Not offering any test in school like TJ since it may skew white? That is preposterous in my opinion since every student should have the opportunity to be challenged. I do not think a school like TJ should be dumbed down just to accommodate students who may be less fortunate in academic terms. Shall we just offer flag football so that those who are not athletically talented may make the cut and play? Instead, I think all students should be afforded rigorous curricula which is often not the case with flexible ability grouping and supports to help those in need.
What are you people talking about? Whites are under-represented at TJ now relative to the general school population. It's roughly 60% middle and upper-income Asian students, whose families value education and often come from countries where entrance exams decide future career paths. It has far less to do with raw intelligence than very different expectations.