Anonymous
09/01/2013 14:03
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Name some SLACS that give good merit aid or are not 50k+ to attend.
Almost all SLACs are $50k plus to attend BUT give merit aid. The ivies do not give merit aid by agreement among them. Some LACs like Temple or Fordham that are especially eager to recruit top-tier kids give $$$$ in merit aid. I've seen this.
You have apparently missed the ginormous debate going on in higher ed today, precisely about the burgeoning student loan crisis and the value of a $240,000 degree. Especially if the student is going to major in something non-lucrative, like teaching or theater. You're not going to convince anyone that many families are indifferent to the choice between an Ivy with tens of thousands in student loan debt, vs. a good state or SLAC or LAC with lots of merit aid.
Just off the top of my head I know that Washington & Lee has a program (Johnson Scholars?) that gives full four-year merit aid. I couldn't understand why W&L, seen as a men's finishing school when I was in high school, had gotten so selective, but this merit program has given them a huge boost in selectivity. Other schools are following suit as well.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 13:31
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Name some SLACS that give good merit aid or are not 50k+ to attend.
If you don't know the answer to this question, you should be reading this debate but not participating in it. The answer is that basically all SLACs cost $55k/year or more, but also almost all of them give merit aid. Given the very high quality of the accepted pool at SLACs like Amherst or Williams, however, it can be hard to stand out from the other acceptees and win some of the merit aid.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 13:28
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
A $240,000 college degree is more important if you plan on law or business school, or if you want to get a PhD and work in academia. The pricey degree makes less sense of you plan to go into a profession like teaching, fine arts or social work, where your credentials are not going to be judged so much.
If you have to take on lots of debt for this $240,000 degree -- and I think we've established that it's necessary for many families in this area, including many Bethesda families -- then the equation makes even less sense. Why take on student debt that is going to be a crushing burden, if you're aiming for a low-paying job in an environmental not-for-profit after graduation?
It sounds like some of you never have to make these calculations. But plenty of other middle class families do, even DCUM "middle class" which seems to be something like $250,000k/year.
If you have to take on lots of debt for this $240,000 degree -- and I think we've established that it's necessary for many families in this area, including many Bethesda families -- then the equation makes even less sense. Why take on student debt that is going to be a crushing burden, if you're aiming for a low-paying job in an environmental not-for-profit after graduation?
It sounds like some of you never have to make these calculations. But plenty of other middle class families do, even DCUM "middle class" which seems to be something like $250,000k/year.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 13:01
Subject: Re:Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Parents can not be blamed that they "failed" to set aside $240,000 per child for college. It is not the parents that are failing. The cost of private college is out of control. Everyone is questioning the value of a $240,000 degree.
Especially if they bought into good school districts like Bethesda and re paying commensurately high mortgages....
Or if they live anywhere in the country that has a normal cost of housing they still do not want to pat $240,000 per child for a college degree.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 11:17
Subject: Re:Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Parents can not be blamed that they "failed" to set aside $240,000 per child for college. It is not the parents that are failing. The cost of private college is out of control. Everyone is questioning the value of a $240,000 degree.
Especially if they bought into good school districts like Bethesda and re paying commensurately high mortgages....
Anonymous
09/01/2013 11:17
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Name some SLACS that give good merit aid or are not 50k+ to attend.
Almost all SLACs are $50k plus to attend BUT give merit aid. The ivies do not give merit aid by agreement among them. Some LACs like Temple or Fordham that are especially eager to recruit top-tier kids give $$$$ in merit aid. I've seen this.
You have apparently missed the ginormous debate going on in higher ed today, precisely about the burgeoning student loan crisis and the value of a $240,000 degree. Especially if the student is going to major in something non-lucrative, like teaching or theater. You're not going to convince anyone that many families are indifferent to the choice between an Ivy with tens of thousands in student loan debt, vs. a good state or SLAC or LAC with lots of merit aid.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 10:05
Subject: Re:Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Parents can not be blamed that they "failed" to set aside $240,000 per child for college. It is not the parents that are failing. The cost of private college is out of control. Everyone is questioning the value of a $240,000 degree.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 09:58
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Name some SLACS that give good merit aid or are not 50k+ to attend.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 09:16
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm not sure the situation is quite as dire as you suggest. When I look at Harvard's webpage, I see this:
Harvard College has provided assistance to students who need help in meeting their education expenses for over 350 years, enabling us to seek out the most outstanding scholars in the world and open our doors to students of exceptional ability and promise, regardless of their financial circumstances. Approximately 60% of undergraduates will receive an estimated $182 million in need-based Harvard Scholarship aid in 2013-14. Over the past decade we have increased our financial aid by 150 percent, enhancing our program to ensure the affordability of a Harvard education even in these challenging economic times. We understand that the thought of financing four years of college can be a daunting prospect for anyone, and we are eager to help you and your family understand our financial aid programs and assist you in finding ways to meet your college costs.
All of our financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need – there are no academic, athletic or merit-based awards, and we meet the demonstrated need of every student, including international students, for all four years. We invite you to explore our web site for a detailed description of all aspects of our aid program, including our Harvard Financial Aid Initiative for low and moderate income students, under which parents with incomes currently below $65,000 are not expected to contribute to college costs.
We do not consider home equity or retirement accounts as resources in our determination of a family contribution, and aid packages do not include any loans. A typical student may receive over $150,000 in Harvard scholarship assistance over four years and the majority of students receiving scholarship are able to graduate debt-free. Our program continues to be generous for students across the economic spectrum, with more than two thirds of those receiving scholarship assistance coming from families with incomes greater than $65,000
I'm sure a student from Bethesda with parents making over $200,000 would not get tons of financial aid. So if parents failed to set aside any money for college savings, that student would have lots of debt at the end of 4 years of Harvard. Yes, it's daunting. But most studies show it's a good investment.
By this logic, lower income families from down county would find Harvard and its ilk a better deal than Bethesda families with $200k incomes would. A recent and will-publicized Pew study finds, however, that lower income families are largely unaware of these grant opportunities and don't apply in anywhere near the numbers this would suggest.
In any case, PP is right, grant aid at Harvard phases out at around $200k, depending on circumstances, like having siblings in college (although hardly any college factors in siblings in private school). Harvard isn't a great example, though, because it is the most generous of all schools, thanks to having the largest endowment of any university. And to state the obvious, first you have to get into Harvard. All college FA formulas assume a great deal of family sacrifice, living on an income that might work in Iowa but probably means eating tuna fish in Bethesda. To get an idea, check out the FAFSA application, although many colleges also adjust FAFSA for different things. Unless your HHI is under about $50-$65k, most schools will include a significant component of loans in the FA package.
Agree with PP that for the very top colleges this student loan debt might be worth it, depending on your major.
Any way, if your family income is $200k, it's absolutely understandable that you might shop around for a good state school or a good SLAC that offers you lots of merit aid.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 07:34
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The big difference between the top publics' exmissions and the top privates' exmissions? Family finances. Step out of your bubbles, won't you, and take a look at the realities facing families who aren't already shelling out $35k/year for private school.
Your average two-govt worker family with a household income of $200k faces the following facts:
- None of the Ivies offers merit aid. None of the Ivies.
- The $200k HHI family won't qualify for any financial aid.
- The $200k HHI family will probably be hard put to pay the full $60k/year Ivy/private university tuition.
- UMD and UVA look like bargains by comparison.
- Early decision boosts your acceptance chances dramatically, but it's a game for families that can lock into a school without waiting to see the financial aid award.
Why you guys can't see this is mystifying. Welcome to the real world.
EXACTLY. Pull the scales from your eyes, people. Right here, here is your story.
Just adding another voice to the chorus. This.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 07:15
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:... Are you really trying to argue that three times as many Whitman students would have been admitted to Ivy colleges, but simply chose not to apply because they couldn't afford it? ...
Student loans are available, but federally subsidized loans, with lower interest rates and deferrals until after graduation, are limited to a total of $34,500 for 4 years of college. And you have to be eligible for financial aid to be eligible for subsidized Stafford loans. If you don't qualify for a Stafford loan, or want to borrow more money, you don't get a deferral--payments start right away--and you need a cosigner. If you have a cosigner, you can indenture yourself for the rest of your days if you want. Four years at Harvard costs $240,000. It would take a long, long time to work off that kind of money.
I'm not sure the situation is quite as dire as you suggest. When I look at Harvard's webpage, I see this:
Harvard College has provided assistance to students who need help in meeting their education expenses for over 350 years, enabling us to seek out the most outstanding scholars in the world and open our doors to students of exceptional ability and promise, regardless of their financial circumstances. Approximately 60% of undergraduates will receive an estimated $182 million in need-based Harvard Scholarship aid in 2013-14. Over the past decade we have increased our financial aid by 150 percent, enhancing our program to ensure the affordability of a Harvard education even in these challenging economic times. We understand that the thought of financing four years of college can be a daunting prospect for anyone, and we are eager to help you and your family understand our financial aid programs and assist you in finding ways to meet your college costs.
All of our financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need – there are no academic, athletic or merit-based awards, and we meet the demonstrated need of every student, including international students, for all four years. We invite you to explore our web site for a detailed description of all aspects of our aid program, including our Harvard Financial Aid Initiative for low and moderate income students, under which parents with incomes currently below $65,000 are not expected to contribute to college costs.
We do not consider home equity or retirement accounts as resources in our determination of a family contribution, and aid packages do not include any loans. A typical student may receive over $150,000 in Harvard scholarship assistance over four years and the majority of students receiving scholarship are able to graduate debt-free. Our program continues to be generous for students across the economic spectrum, with more than two thirds of those receiving scholarship assistance coming from families with incomes greater than $65,000
I'm sure a student from Bethesda with parents making over $200,000 would not get tons of financial aid. So if parents failed to set aside any money for college savings, that student would have lots of debt at the end of 4 years of Harvard. Yes, it's daunting. But most studies show it's a good investment.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 00:39
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The big difference between the top publics' exmissions and the top privates' exmissions? Family finances. Step out of your bubbles, won't you, and take a look at the realities facing families who aren't already shelling out $35k/year for private school.
Your average two-govt worker family with a household income of $200k faces the following facts:
- None of the Ivies offers merit aid. None of the Ivies.
- The $200k HHI family won't qualify for any financial aid.
- The $200k HHI family will probably be hard put to pay the full $60k/year Ivy/private university tuition.
- UMD and UVA look like bargains by comparison.
- Early decision boosts your acceptance chances dramatically, but it's a game for families that can lock into a school without waiting to see the financial aid award.
Why you guys can't see this is mystifying. Welcome to the real world.
Yes, I'm sure every family looks at college costs and factors that into decisions. And perhaps that analysis scares off some students from matriculating/applying. But the Holton/Landon % are three times higher than the Whitman percentages. Are you really trying to argue that three times as many Whitman students would have been admitted to Ivy colleges, but simply chose not to apply because they couldn't afford it? That seems unlikely to me.
Also, FWIW, are student loans no longer available? When I attended college, I was in the exact situation you describe -- parents made enough to limit my financial aid options, but not enough to pay for college -- so I just financed my college tuition via low-cost student loans. I spent the first several years of my working life paying those off, but that's just the price I had to pay. Even dumb me knew it was a smart bargain. And if I'd been admitted to some fancy-pants college like Harvard or Yale, I'd surely have taken on extra loans in a heart-beat.
Student loans are available, but federally subsidized loans, with lower interest rates and deferrals until after graduation, are limited to a total of $34,500 for 4 years of college. And you have to be eligible for financial aid to be eligible for subsidized Stafford loans. If you don't qualify for a Stafford loan, or want to borrow more money, you don't get a deferral--payments start right away--and you need a cosigner. If you have a cosigner, you can indenture yourself for the rest of your days if you want. Four years at Harvard costs $240,000. It would take a long, long time to work off that kind of money.
Anonymous
09/01/2013 00:23
Subject: Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:The big difference between the top publics' exmissions and the top privates' exmissions? Family finances. Step out of your bubbles, won't you, and take a look at the realities facing families who aren't already shelling out $35k/year for private school.
Your average two-govt worker family with a household income of $200k faces the following facts:
- None of the Ivies offers merit aid. None of the Ivies.
- The $200k HHI family won't qualify for any financial aid.
- The $200k HHI family will probably be hard put to pay the full $60k/year Ivy/private university tuition.
- UMD and UVA look like bargains by comparison.
- Early decision boosts your acceptance chances dramatically, but it's a game for families that can lock into a school without waiting to see the financial aid award.
Why you guys can't see this is mystifying. Welcome to the real world.
EXACTLY. Pull the scales from your eyes, people. Right here, here is your story.
Anonymous
08/31/2013 22:21
Subject: Re:Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Anonymous wrote:Check TJ admissions. Impressive.
link?
Anonymous
08/30/2013 20:45
Subject: Re:Bethesda Magazine - List of College Acceptances
Check TJ admissions. Impressive.