Anonymous wrote:AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

I agree that students receiving AAP services can be taught together in Local Level IV. Of course a critical mass of academic peers is best.

AAP children can be taught with other independent and high achieving students. It's done in LLIV schools all the time and can be done in the centers too. A teacher shouldn't have to teach many, many different levels, but they can teach 2-3 levels during the year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be no classes where FCPS states that other children cannot be in. Class sizes are being skewed because AAP students at centers are being guaranteed a class with no other children besides other AAP students. AAP students should be guaranteed classes with other AAP students. That is as far as they should go. No other school should have greater class sizes because general ed and AAP students at center schools can't mix in the slightest.

What are you talking about? Music? Strings? PE? Those are all mixed between AAP and gen ed.

Or are you saying AAP and non-AAP should be mixed in the core subjects, math, science, writing, etc?

Not the OP, but that's exactly what needs to happen. If all manner of abilities can be mixed in the Gen Ed classes, why not mix the AAP kids in as well? Why is it that they are given their own classrooms and do not interact with other abilities in the core subjects, yet the typical Gen Ed student is expected to learn alongside kids with learning disablities/special needs?

PP, I agree 100%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be no classes where FCPS states that other children cannot be in. Class sizes are being skewed because AAP students at centers are being guaranteed a class with no other children besides other AAP students. AAP students should be guaranteed classes with other AAP students. That is as far as they should go. No other school should have greater class sizes because general ed and AAP students at center schools can't mix in the slightest.

What are you talking about? Music? Strings? PE? Those are all mixed between AAP and gen ed.

Or are you saying AAP and non-AAP should be mixed in the core subjects, math, science, writing, etc?

Not the OP, but that's exactly what needs to happen. If all manner of abilities can be mixed in the Gen Ed classes, why not mix the AAP kids in as well? Why is it that they are given their own classrooms and do not interact with other abilities in the core subjects, yet the typical Gen Ed student is expected to learn alongside kids with learning disablities/special needs?

Teachers have a hard enough time differentiating, that would be a disaster. I think they need to do tracking in Gen Ed also so the teachers can really help the kids according to where they are academically.

there are many special needs kids in the aap classes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be no classes where FCPS states that other children cannot be in. Class sizes are being skewed because AAP students at centers are being guaranteed a class with no other children besides other AAP students. AAP students should be guaranteed classes with other AAP students. That is as far as they should go. No other school should have greater class sizes because general ed and AAP students at center schools can't mix in the slightest.

What are you talking about? Music? Strings? PE? Those are all mixed between AAP and gen ed.

Or are you saying AAP and non-AAP should be mixed in the core subjects, math, science, writing, etc?

Not the OP, but that's exactly what needs to happen. If all manner of abilities can be mixed in the Gen Ed classes, why not mix the AAP kids in as well? Why is it that they are given their own classrooms and do not interact with other abilities in the core subjects, yet the typical Gen Ed student is expected to learn alongside kids with learning disablities/special needs?

Anonymous wrote:21:27 I'm saying that for all core subjects, no child should be guaranteed all other children will be at their level. Class sizes are being skewed because children are being segregated and not allowed to mix at these centers. If special ed children should be mainstreamed, so should AAP children to some degree. Certainly they shouldn't have lower class sizes just because there aren't enough AAP children to fill out a class. No one should be guaranteed a complete class of children at the same level. That is not guaranteed in general ed and shouldn't be guaranteed in AAP either. They should be allowed access to an advanced curriculum. That's all.

Totally agree. Gen Ed students are a mix of avg./above avg. kids, along with LD or special needs kids. If these children can be mainstreamed, why on earth can't AAP students? Why do they need to be segregated with only other AAP kids? The whole system is ridiculous, especially as many, if not most, Gen Ed kids are indistinguishable from most AAP kids. It's only a very few at the uppermost end of the spectrum, who "need" AAP/GT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:27 I'm saying that for all core subjects, no child should be guaranteed all other children will be at their level. Class sizes are being skewed because children are being segregated and not allowed to mix at these centers. If special ed children should be mainstreamed, so should AAP children to some degree. Certainly they shouldn't have lower class sizes just because there aren't enough AAP children to fill out a class. No one should be guaranteed a complete class of children at the same level. That is not guaranteed in general ed and shouldn't be guaranteed in AAP either. They should be allowed access to an advanced curriculum. That's all.

A lot of times. AAP classes are bigger than gen ed classes. Where are you getting that AAP classes are smaller.

AAP classes can be smaller. The principal allocates staff. Here's the link to the detail budgets for schools:
http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/documents/detailed/approved/2014/FY2014DetailSchools.pdf

Search for Colvin Run. They get staff based on numbers of students. There's a formula giving more staff to schools with ESL and FRP.

Anonymous wrote:21:27 I'm saying that for all core subjects, no child should be guaranteed all other children will be at their level. Class sizes are being skewed because children are being segregated and not allowed to mix at these centers. If special ed children should be mainstreamed, so should AAP children to some degree. Certainly they shouldn't have lower class sizes just because there aren't enough AAP children to fill out a class. No one should be guaranteed a complete class of children at the same level. That is not guaranteed in general ed and shouldn't be guaranteed in AAP either. They should be allowed access to an advanced curriculum. That's all.

A lot of times. AAP classes are bigger than gen ed classes. Where are you getting that AAP classes are smaller.

21:27 I'm saying that for all core subjects, no child should be guaranteed all other children will be at their level. Class sizes are being skewed because children are being segregated and not allowed to mix at these centers. If special ed children should be mainstreamed, so should AAP children to some degree. Certainly they shouldn't have lower class sizes just because there aren't enough AAP children to fill out a class. No one should be guaranteed a complete class of children at the same level. That is not guaranteed in general ed and shouldn't be guaranteed in AAP either. They should be allowed access to an advanced curriculum. That's all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Navy usually has 4 3rd grade classes, but this year it swelled to 7 3rd grade because of the 3 new AAP classes. The school is now overcapacity.

Pathetic! And remember Navy was one of 3 new centers added to deal with overcrowding at other AAP schools. Another new center, Westbriar, is also already overcapacity. And we're supposed to believe that without all these centers these "gifted" kids would be denied a decent education. Utter rubbish perpetuated by pushy parents and a school board that needs to get a back bone.

Absolutely agree. Centers, if needed at all, should be there to educate kids who can't otherwise get the education they need in a Gen Ed classroom. That was the original intent, however you would never guess that from looking at the current state of AAP. I'm all for "gifted education" for those kids who actually fit the criteria and are not just a bit above average (if that). The school board needs to reevaluate retroactively the past couple of years of AAP admissions and return the Gen Ed classrooms to ALL kids except those who are tremendously gifted. And that percentage, as we all know, is very, very small.

+1000 You said it, sister (or brother).

I feel like this is closer to how it used to be when I went through FCPS in the '90s. GT centers (as well as local pull-out) existed but there was not such a "great divide" - I'm not quite sure what happened to cause all of this AAP madness.

Back then, when AAP was for only the rarified few, was there not also tracking (dividing the masses into separate classes based on ability)? When did tracking go away? It's not surprising that, with no other options for providing good differentiation, FCPS has allowed the numbers in AAP to rise. It is FCPS who decides who passes through the pearly gates leading to AAP. The appealing parents don't decide and could be denied in numbers as great as FCPS wished. But FCPS knows it would not be effective to teach from 0% up to 99.6% in each class for all of elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:It has to do with redshirted boys.

Wrong.

Many of the boys in my kid's boy dominated AAP grade are actually on the younger side for the grade (May-August babies). These are the immature, antsy behavior issue kids in grades 3-4, who level out in 5th grade. You can't tell the difference between them and the others as they get into upper grades.

Most of the boys are on-grade/age level.

I only know of one boy in my kid's AAP grade who was "red-shirted". Hi birthday was one week before the cut off, and his mom held him back because he was too immature and wild, not for AAP.

He is old for the grade, but only by one week.

You are talking in stereotypes and assumptions, not facts.

Anonymous wrote:There should be no classes where FCPS states that other children cannot be in. Class sizes are being skewed because AAP students at centers are being guaranteed a class with no other children besides other AAP students. AAP students should be guaranteed classes with other AAP students. That is as far as they should go. No other school should have greater class sizes because general ed and AAP students at center schools can't mix in the slightest.

What are you talking about? Music? Strings? PE? Those are all mixed between AAP and gen ed.

Or are you saying AAP and non-AAP should be mixed in the core subjects, math, science, writing, etc?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Navy usually has 4 3rd grade classes, but this year it swelled to 7 3rd grade because of the 3 new AAP classes. The school is now overcapacity.

Pathetic! And remember Navy was one of 3 new centers added to deal with overcrowding at other AAP schools. Another new center, Westbriar, is also already overcapacity. And we're supposed to believe that without all these centers these "gifted" kids would be denied a decent education. Utter rubbish perpetuated by pushy parents and a school board that needs to get a back bone.

Absolutely agree. Centers, if needed at all, should be there to educate kids who can't otherwise get the education they need in a Gen Ed classroom. That was the original intent, however you would never guess that from looking at the current state of AAP. I'm all for "gifted education" for those kids who actually fit the criteria and are not just a bit above average (if that). The school board needs to reevaluate retroactively the past couple of years of AAP admissions and return the Gen Ed classrooms to ALL kids except those who are tremendously gifted. And that percentage, as we all know, is very, very small.

+1000 You said it, sister (or brother).

I feel like this is closer to how it used to be when I went through FCPS in the '90s. GT centers (as well as local pull-out) existed but there was not such a "great divide" - I'm not quite sure what happened to cause all of this AAP madness.

Pushy, entitled parents who feel their average snowflakes must be gifted, and the FCPS powers-that-be who perpetuate this mentality by both keeping the score cutoff too low and by accepting anyone who appeals.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Navy usually has 4 3rd grade classes, but this year it swelled to 7 3rd grade because of the 3 new AAP classes. The school is now overcapacity.

Pathetic! And remember Navy was one of 3 new centers added to deal with overcrowding at other AAP schools. Another new center, Westbriar, is also already overcapacity. And we're supposed to believe that without all these centers these "gifted" kids would be denied a decent education. Utter rubbish perpetuated by pushy parents and a school board that needs to get a back bone.

Absolutely agree. Centers, if needed at all, should be there to educate kids who can't otherwise get the education they need in a Gen Ed classroom. That was the original intent, however you would never guess that from looking at the current state of AAP. I'm all for "gifted education" for those kids who actually fit the criteria and are not just a bit above average (if that). The school board needs to reevaluate retroactively the past couple of years of AAP admissions and return the Gen Ed classrooms to ALL kids except those who are tremendously gifted. And that percentage, as we all know, is very, very small.

+1000 You said it, sister (or brother).

I feel like this is closer to how it used to be when I went through FCPS in the '90s. GT centers (as well as local pull-out) existed but there was not such a "great divide" - I'm not quite sure what happened to cause all of this AAP madness.

Pushy, entitled parents who feel their average snowflakes must be gifted, and the FCPS powers-that-be who perpetuate this mentality by both keeping the score cutoff too low and by accepting anyone who appeals.