Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 15:00     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
These types of threads always amaze me. When I was pregnant with my DS about 3 years ago, this exact subject was posted and it went on and on for pages with the same result. Absolutely no consensus and a lot of name calling. And I have the same thought today that I had 3 years ago…why does society think it owns a pregnant woman so much that an alcohol thread full of name calling and finger pointing even exists. Why do you care what another pregnant woman does to the point that you will call her selfish for choices she makes? Or better yet, insinuate she will have a developmentally delayed child? I have no desire or energy to analyze and judge what others do. Why do some of you? Want to drink 5 drinks a day? Go for it. Want to eat raw sushi? Yum, yum, enjoy. Dye your hair, smoke crack, gain 100 pounds. Do it, do it, do it! And before you point at me and say I must be a pregnancy boozer, I'm not. I also avoid lunchmeat, certain cheeses, raw fish, coffee and alcohol. But that’s my personal choice and what I’m comfortable with. If you want to do something different, more power to you because I DO NOT CARE.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 14:36     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think we all choose are vices. For some it is french fries. For some it is medication during birth. For some it is occasional wine. For some it is not exercising. For some it is coffee. For some it is lots of refined sugar. I think that in general pregnant women should try to eliminate the vices that they don't enjoy and minimize the amount the do the ones that add joy to their lives and make them feel more normal. No one is perfect.


I agree with this perspective. And at some point you do have to live your life. Which isn't to say that if your life involves daily drinking, you don't need to cut back during pregnancy; probably you do. But if your life involves a single drink once a month, I just don't see the big deal. And to be honest, I think I'd feel the same about a single cigarette or a single joint -- and I have never smoked either. But there's a difference between something like listeria which can be deadly to the fetus if contracted a single time, and something like alcohol or tobacco which requires repeated exposure. Honestly, I probably have done more harm by eating a piece of chocolate every day than by drinking a total of two glasses of wine during the entire pregnancy. I also probably have done some harm by not cutting back on stressful projects at work -- but I need to earn a living, it won't help the kid to have a mother who is unemployed. I would never intentionally do something that I thought would harm the baby, but it is still my life, and I can't lock myself in a hermetically sealed room for 9 months. I could do everything right and still wind up, G-d forbid, with a child with autism, severe allergies, other disabilities, or a horrible personality. I can't stress about that, and I am not going to stress about too much else, either. I do the best I can, as I am sure we all do. Some people's best is no doubt better than mine. That's just the way it is. It will be that way when the baby is born, too; I am not super-mom, just an ordinary mortal. I will be the best mom I can be, but I'm sure there will be many others who are better by some objective standard.


I like this perspective.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 14:22     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:Oh my god, people. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy is a completely different level of risk to a developing fetus than refined sugar, french fries or not exercising. Alcohol is a neurotoxin to a developing fetus. For those of you who think the data is somehow hysterically overprotective and produced by "biased" organizations, you might want to read the following from the National Institutes of Health.

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/sites/default/files/ARNDConferenceConsensusStatementBooklet_Complete.pdf

I deal with a kid who suffers from the effects of prenatal alcohol exposure. It is heart-breaking. Why would you even consider creating this type of risk for your baby when it is completely 100% avoidable?


Ok, I read this. And yes, the effects of prenatal alcohol exposure sound awful. But this statement doesn't say that light drinking has any adverse effect on a developing fetus. All it says is what these kinds of statements and studies always say: if you binge drink or drink heavily for sustained periods, you greatly increase your risk of harming the fetus. It may also be that drinking at some level below "binge drinking or heavy sustained drinking" will also have some effects. Which tells us nothing, and certainly doesn't address the situations described here: having an occasional glass of wine a handful of times during your pregnancy.

I'm pregnant and I do a lot of things that create risk for my fetus that are 100% avoidable: I eat cantaloupe. I drive. I cross the street. The other day, I had a fried egg with a soft yolk. I do these things because I am a woman and a human in addition to being an incubator for a fetus, and when balancing insignificant/negligible risk against significant improvements to my outlook/happiness, I'm gonna go with the latter sometimes. Because I am more than just the fetus inside me.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 14:18     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:Oh my god, people. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy is a completely different level of risk to a developing fetus than refined sugar, french fries or not exercising. Alcohol is a neurotoxin to a developing fetus. For those of you who think the data is somehow hysterically overprotective and produced by "biased" organizations, you might want to read the following from the National Institutes of Health.

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/sites/default/files/ARNDConferenceConsensusStatementBooklet_Complete.pdf

I deal with a kid who suffers from the effects of prenatal alcohol exposure. It is heart-breaking. Why would you even consider creating this type of risk for your baby when it is completely 100% avoidable?


From your own link: "An ARND diagnosis requires confirmed, significant PAE. Determination of alcohol exposure can be based on maternal self-report; the report of a spouse, partner, relative, or friend who observed the birth mother drinking alcohol during the index pregnancy; and/or documentation in medical or other records about maternal alcohol use during the index pregnancy."

There is not consensus in the scientific and medical community about what "significant" exposure is, which is why the overall guideline is that no safe amount has ever been established. I never said that the data was hysterically overprotective - just that data about whether a single glass of wine with food once in a while is dangerous basically does not exist. Clearly, anecdotal data exists, since many people have had small amounts of alcohol while pregnant with no adverse effects on their children, but the OP's question was about actual studies that discuss this.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 14:10     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Oh my god, people. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy is a completely different level of risk to a developing fetus than refined sugar, french fries or not exercising. Alcohol is a neurotoxin to a developing fetus. For those of you who think the data is somehow hysterically overprotective and produced by "biased" organizations, you might want to read the following from the National Institutes of Health.

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/sites/default/files/ARNDConferenceConsensusStatementBooklet_Complete.pdf

I deal with a kid who suffers from the effects of prenatal alcohol exposure. It is heart-breaking. Why would you even consider creating this type of risk for your baby when it is completely 100% avoidable?
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:57     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:I think we all choose are vices. For some it is french fries. For some it is medication during birth. For some it is occasional wine. For some it is not exercising. For some it is coffee. For some it is lots of refined sugar. I think that in general pregnant women should try to eliminate the vices that they don't enjoy and minimize the amount the do the ones that add joy to their lives and make them feel more normal. No one is perfect.


I agree with this perspective. And at some point you do have to live your life. Which isn't to say that if your life involves daily drinking, you don't need to cut back during pregnancy; probably you do. But if your life involves a single drink once a month, I just don't see the big deal. And to be honest, I think I'd feel the same about a single cigarette or a single joint -- and I have never smoked either. But there's a difference between something like listeria which can be deadly to the fetus if contracted a single time, and something like alcohol or tobacco which requires repeated exposure. Honestly, I probably have done more harm by eating a piece of chocolate every day than by drinking a total of two glasses of wine during the entire pregnancy. I also probably have done some harm by not cutting back on stressful projects at work -- but I need to earn a living, it won't help the kid to have a mother who is unemployed. I would never intentionally do something that I thought would harm the baby, but it is still my life, and I can't lock myself in a hermetically sealed room for 9 months. I could do everything right and still wind up, G-d forbid, with a child with autism, severe allergies, other disabilities, or a horrible personality. I can't stress about that, and I am not going to stress about too much else, either. I do the best I can, as I am sure we all do. Some people's best is no doubt better than mine. That's just the way it is. It will be that way when the baby is born, too; I am not super-mom, just an ordinary mortal. I will be the best mom I can be, but I'm sure there will be many others who are better by some objective standard.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:51     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:It isn't just the "safety" factor. It's the "healthy" factor. I could likely smoke a joint and no harm would ever come to the baby, but I wouldn't do that because it isn't GOOD for the baby. I get that folks are better at being good when it comes to certain things. I think we all get that.


Many things that pregnant women do are "unhealthy" for the baby. We just choose to deomonize light drinking.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:47     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
It isn't just the "safety" factor. It's the "healthy" factor. I could likely smoke a joint and no harm would ever come to the baby, but I wouldn't do that because it isn't GOOD for the baby. I get that folks are better at being good when it comes to certain things. I think we all get that.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:35     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nope, that's not it, PP. It has more to do with what I hope is a small minority of women struggling to justify their drinking during pregnancy who then turn around and pontificate on the importance of breast feeding (ya know, since it's better for the baby), and intervention-free childbirth (ya know, since it's better for the baby). Or the organic vegan yoga mom who has a baby plan and a glass of wine each night. It's the irony that makes us wonder about these folks and their choices. That's all.


EXACTLY. My friend drank a good amount during her pregnancy and refuses to vaccinate her child. Can someone please explain this to me?


Sure. She probably believes that one of these things is dangerous for her child, while the other poses minimal risk. I'm not saying I agree with her choices. I'm the 4-glass-of-wine-in-9-months PP, and I did not believe that having a glass of wine here and there, with food, poses a serious risk to my baby. All the research I did while I was pregnant validated my decision. I researched vaccination as well, and all the research I did validated my decision to vaccinate on schedule. Other people clearly did research that indicated that no amount of alcohol at any point ever was safe, and people also did research that indicated that vaccines are dangerous.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:27     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:I think we all choose are vices. For some it is french fries. For some it is medication during birth. For some it is occasional wine. For some it is not exercising. For some it is coffee. For some it is lots of refined sugar. I think that in general pregnant women should try to eliminate the vices that they don't enjoy and minimize the amount the do the ones that add joy to their lives and make them feel more normal. No one is perfect.


Oops. Our Vices, not Are Vices. Pregnancy brain.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 13:26     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
I think we all choose are vices. For some it is french fries. For some it is medication during birth. For some it is occasional wine. For some it is not exercising. For some it is coffee. For some it is lots of refined sugar. I think that in general pregnant women should try to eliminate the vices that they don't enjoy and minimize the amount the do the ones that add joy to their lives and make them feel more normal. No one is perfect.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 12:50     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:Nope, that's not it, PP. It has more to do with what I hope is a small minority of women struggling to justify their drinking during pregnancy who then turn around and pontificate on the importance of breast feeding (ya know, since it's better for the baby), and intervention-free childbirth (ya know, since it's better for the baby). Or the organic vegan yoga mom who has a baby plan and a glass of wine each night. It's the irony that makes us wonder about these folks and their choices. That's all.


EXACTLY. My friend drank a good amount during her pregnancy and refuses to vaccinate her child. Can someone please explain this to me?
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 12:46     Subject: Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Nope, that's not it, PP. It has more to do with what I hope is a small minority of women struggling to justify their drinking during pregnancy who then turn around and pontificate on the importance of breast feeding (ya know, since it's better for the baby), and intervention-free childbirth (ya know, since it's better for the baby). Or the organic vegan yoga mom who has a baby plan and a glass of wine each night. It's the irony that makes us wonder about these folks and their choices. That's all.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 12:45     Subject: Re:Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Anonymous wrote:Why do I get the feeling that those who are so adamant about other people abstaining 100% (why not just worry about yourself?) are in some way almost angry that the "bad" mothers who had occasional beer/wine ended up with healthy children? It really seems that way, like they feel that its not fair that they do the "right" thing and have healthy kids but also those who do the "wrong" thing have healthy kids..............it almost reads like they wish bad things would happen to babies just so they could be "right".

Which is disgusting.


No whats disgusting is your thought process and your post above. You are the terrible person for even thinking such absurd things about people.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2013 12:40     Subject: Re:Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?
Why do I get the feeling that those who are so adamant about other people abstaining 100% (why not just worry about yourself?) are in some way almost angry that the "bad" mothers who had occasional beer/wine ended up with healthy children? It really seems that way, like they feel that its not fair that they do the "right" thing and have healthy kids but also those who do the "wrong" thing have healthy kids..............it almost reads like they wish bad things would happen to babies just so they could be "right".

Which is disgusting.