Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Your basic point is spot on, but totally undermined by your man hating judgment. "notoriously misogynistic frat culture" really?

Not PP, but yeah, really. Dartmouth fraternity culture is exactly that and well known for it. Not all fraternity culture is misogynistic, but Dartmouth's fraternities are awful.

Female who attended Dartmouth here. This was not my experience. At all.

+1 but I know the type that would say that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Your basic point is spot on, but totally undermined by your man hating judgment. "notoriously misogynistic frat culture" really?

Not PP, but yeah, really. Dartmouth fraternity culture is exactly that and well known for it. Not all fraternity culture is misogynistic, but Dartmouth's fraternities are awful.

Female who attended Dartmouth here. This was not my experience. At all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Your basic point is spot on, but totally undermined by your man hating judgment. "notoriously misogynistic frat culture" really?

Not PP, but yeah, really. Dartmouth fraternity culture is exactly that and well known for it. Not all fraternity culture is misogynistic, but Dartmouth's fraternities are awful.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah. People will make a big deal that their kids attends some SLAC with no Greeks and turn a blind eye to the rampant drug use at many of those schools, in part because the tolerance for misbehavior is far higher there. It's a wonder schools like Bard, Hampshire, Vassar and Reed don't spontaneously self-combust.

Vassar doesn't belong on that list. Its been drifting toward preppiedom

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah. People will make a big deal that their kids attends some SLAC with no Greeks and turn a blind eye to the rampant drug use at many of those schools, in part because the tolerance for misbehavior is far higher there. It's a wonder schools like Bard, Hampshire, Vassar and Reed don't spontaneously self-combust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Your basic point is spot on, but totally undermined by your man hating judgment. "notoriously misogynistic frat culture" really?

Not PP, but yeah, really. Dartmouth fraternity culture is exactly that and well known for it. Not all fraternity culture is misogynistic, but Dartmouth's fraternities are awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Your basic point is spot on, but totally undermined by your man hating judgment. "notoriously misogynistic frat culture" really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

I'm not the PP you're quoting, but I agree that the tour guides and admissions officers all parrot the same line -- even at places like Dartmouth with a notoriously misogynistic frat culture. Additionally, they often manipulate the stats to create the illusion that fewer students go Greek than actually do. For example, when our kids toured Dartmouth, the admissions office line was "only 40% of male students join frats". This is true, but doesn't take into account the prohibition on freshmen participating in Greek life. Thus, if you ask, what percentage of all male students eligible to join frats choose to do so, the percentage is is significantly higher.

You'll get a more honest perspective on social life from current students -- your DS can ask his HS school counselor for contact info for any recent grads who have gone to the colleges he's considering. Better yet, try to line up an overnight visit with a current student. For our kids this was the most helpful way to get a sense of whether the school's social scene would be a good fit.

Anonymous wrote:Don't like how people act when they drink too much and exclude people for no good reason. Also, I'm paying big bucks for my kid to go to college to learn, not to drink.

Right and we all know that if they are not in a GLO, they won't drink.

Don't like how people act when they drink too much and exclude people for no good reason. Also, I'm paying big bucks for my kid to go to college to learn, not to drink.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Curious how they "saw" the culture, PPs? Did they spend a night or weekend on campus? We recently did a day tour and were pretty impressed. DS definitely doesn't want a big frat/party scene, though,
and it's impossible to get a sense from the outside what the culture is like. Every school we have visited says the same thing: 30% go Greek, it's no big deal either way, they're really inclusive, blah blah blah.

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

Same with DS.

Anonymous wrote:As a college instructor, I just see more negatives than positives associated with Greek Life. I have students who tell me that they couldn't complete the readings or do assignments because it's rush (parents, please tell you kids that rush is never a good excuse!) I see drunk crowds of students staggering between frats, young men sitting outside frats making lewd comments about the young women walking by, and the students who are really vocal about being in a frat or a sorority are inevitably my worst students. In my experience, Greek Life just institutionalizes bad behavior and college administrators are scared to crack down.

(I don't think I've complained about this topic before on DCUM.)

All of this, except that I am a former national officer of a national sorority. I spent two years as a "paid" (in quotes because I barely scraped by) staff member. I've cut all ties to my sorority.

Some people seem to really like Greek life, but the appeal is by no means universal. Greek life is the primary reason DD is not applying to UVA. She was horrified by the frat boy culture she saw.

I went to grad school in the south following an undergraduate degree at a school without fraternities/sororities.

There may have been benefits for the undergrads who joined, but I mostly saw the downsides.

During the years I was there, each year rush started and was immediately followed by rush violations. When the groups involved (usually fraternities) were sanctioned, they, and their alumni, published anguished letters in the school paper about how they didn't mean to do anything wrong, the punishment was too harsh, and the administration didn't understand what it means to be Greek.

At southern schools, in general, and mine, in particular, the Greeks dress and take dates to the football games. They have their own sections. They "pre-game" and arrive hammered. After the game, the Greek section of the stands was frequently littered with the bodies of over-dressed, over-liquored students who sipped from flasks smuggled in.

Each year there were events involving alcohol and, in one case, homemade napalm, that resulted in students going to the hospital. See http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/3/5/campus-watch-pfraternities-around-the-country/

I'm sure there were good reasons to join, but looking at the Greeks from the outside, I never saw them.