Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

The whole purpose of having an aap program at Jackson was to boost up the school? What? Then where would the Thoreau aap kids have gone originally when there was no Thoreau option? You think they did it to boost up LJ but not really to help the aap kids??? You’re making stuff up.

No... they have just been using the AAP kids (from anywhere in the AAP catchment area) to mask what would otherwise be a low-performing school --- at least according to the PP. You know -- to keep up appearances and housing values. Put the AAP center in a school and make it look like it's pretty good. Problem is that the kids who aren't in the center don't get much out of that inflated reputation. Their classes/classmates are pretty much the same as they would be without the center.

Good news for PP and anyone else with a child zoned for Jackson... the disciplinary stats are likely to improve. With more space per child (they were SEVERELY over-crowded these past 3+ years), there is a good chance that there will be fewer run-ins and a little more calm in the facility. Even if the rate of behavior problems remained the same , the actual number of incidents would decline because there will be 300 fewer kids in Jackson.

But -- to PP's point about whether the rezoning was the right decision or not -- that doesn't have anything to do with what it is like at Jackson middle school right now. You can't point to something that hasn't been implemented to explain why people are leaving or why the PP said that most of the discipline problems are in the non-AAP part. Whatever has been happening at Jackson has been WITH the kids you wanted to keep at LJ. (the 1/2 OES/all MWES/1/8 MRES).

You seem to be suggesting that placing the AAP center and districting part of Oakton to LJ years ago was a cynical decision by FCPS. One could say it was enlightened and reflected the practical reality that people look at the overall demographics of a school when making decisions about where to live or send their kids to school.

By putting LLIV at Thoreau and moving the Oakton kids at LJ to Thoreau, FCPS is (1) gambling that because LJ is designated as a "center," and Thoreau is not, a lot of parents of AAP kids with Thoreau now as their base school will continue to send their kids there and/or (2) indifferent as to the effect on LJ, as long as they can say they reduced the overcrowding there.

Perhaps you are right, and the number of disciplinary infractions at LJ will go down, if becomes a calmer environment. And, of course, some of the offenders will now go to Thoreau. The other effects on LJ and the surrounding communities will take more time to reveal themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

The whole purpose of having an aap program at Jackson was to boost up the school? What? Then where would the Thoreau aap kids have gone originally when there was no Thoreau option? You think they did it to boost up LJ but not really to help the aap kids??? You’re making stuff up.

All PP was saying was that it wasn't unusual for FCPS to place AAP centers at schools with more FARMS students than the nearby schools. That's why AAP was put at Glasgow, not Holmes; Kilmer, not Thoreau; and Longfellow, not Cooper.

Now FCPS is opening more AAP centers or LLIV equivalents. They didn't formally designate Thoreau as an AAP center, but it has LLIV and everyone knows kids can basically take the same advanced classes there. They pretended they weren't turning Jackson into another Poe (now over 70% FARMS), when that's exactly what they may be doing. And the School Board members who voted in favor of this like Palchik and Keys-Gamarra need to be called out as phony limousine liberals and voted out next year.

So which is it?

Jackson is so much better/more rigorous OR AAP at TMS is basically the same?

I'm confused?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

The whole purpose of having an aap program at Jackson was to boost up the school? What? Then where would the Thoreau aap kids have gone originally when there was no Thoreau option? You think they did it to boost up LJ but not really to help the aap kids??? You’re making stuff up.

No... they have just been using the AAP kids (from anywhere in the AAP catchment area) to mask what would otherwise be a low-performing school --- at least according to the PP. You know -- to keep up appearances and housing values. Put the AAP center in a school and make it look like it's pretty good. Problem is that the kids who aren't in the center don't get much out of that inflated reputation. Their classes/classmates are pretty much the same as they would be without the center.

Good news for PP and anyone else with a child zoned for Jackson... the disciplinary stats are likely to improve. With more space per child (they were SEVERELY over-crowded these past 3+ years), there is a good chance that there will be fewer run-ins and a little more calm in the facility. Even if the rate of behavior problems remained the same , the actual number of incidents would decline because there will be 300 fewer kids in Jackson.

But -- to PP's point about whether the rezoning was the right decision or not -- that doesn't have anything to do with what it is like at Jackson middle school right now. You can't point to something that hasn't been implemented to explain why people are leaving or why the PP said that most of the discipline problems are in the non-AAP part. Whatever has been happening at Jackson has been WITH the kids you wanted to keep at LJ. (the 1/2 OES/all MWES/1/8 MRES).

I wouldn’t vote them out next year. I’m glad we have the choice and my kids are still picking lj (seventh).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

The whole purpose of having an aap program at Jackson was to boost up the school? What? Then where would the Thoreau aap kids have gone originally when there was no Thoreau option? You think they did it to boost up LJ but not really to help the aap kids??? You’re making stuff up.

All PP was saying was that it wasn't unusual for FCPS to place AAP centers at schools with more FARMS students than the nearby schools. That's why AAP was put at Glasgow, not Holmes; Kilmer, not Thoreau; and Longfellow, not Cooper.

Now FCPS is opening more AAP centers or LLIV equivalents. They didn't formally designate Thoreau as an AAP center, but it has LLIV and everyone knows kids can basically take the same advanced classes there. They pretended they weren't turning Jackson into another Poe (now over 70% FARMS), when that's exactly what they may be doing. And the School Board members who voted in favor of this like Palchik and Keys-Gamarra need to be called out as phony limousine liberals and voted out next year.

Anonymous wrote:It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

The whole purpose of having an aap program at Jackson was to boost up the school? What? Then where would the Thoreau aap kids have gone originally when there was no Thoreau option? You think they did it to boost up LJ but not really to help the aap kids??? You’re making stuff up.

It is what it is because the school board and BOS segregates their schools and neigborhoods. They don't have to. They could both balance demographics better if they wanted to. Instead they look the other way. Why should TMS have gotten a LLIV program when the whole purpose of having the AAP program at Jackson was to boost up the school? I'm sure that's why they put the center program there to begin with. Now they've redistricted some of the more wealthy population out of LJ and have allowed the wealthier school to basically have their own center program. It goes against the whole reason for the center programs at disadvantaged schools to begin with.

If it was just a matter of perception and not reality on the ground, then why would there be kids willing to leave after spending one year there, in class, on the ground? It's only a two-year school.

And while I'm sure there are differences in applying the regulations on what must be reported for safe/secure numbers, isn't it a little too convenient to say that the principal at Jackson is the ONLY one in fcps who actually complies and everyone else is fudging the books? Really? Even the PP who works there reported that pretty much all of the disciplinary situations are in the base-school part.

Seems like most of the Jackson supporters are parents of AAP kids -- kids/parents who may have experience with one subset in the school. Also, I don't think it is "racist" to note that as an objective comparison, LJMS has more kids who are economically disadvantages and more kids who are english learners (coming from recent immigrant families) than many other schools. It is what it is. Just because another parent would prefer that their child go to a school where there are fewer struggling/challenged students, doesn't make them "racist." It's reasonable to want your child in a school that has more high-performing peers (especially if your child is not in the AAP crowd anyway).

I don't think anyone has ever said that you cannot get a good education there. But, there will always be concerns about the peer group and whether (on the whole) it will add to your child's day to day experience or take away from it (based on behavior incidents and academic preparation/motivation). The peer groups in gen. ed vs. the peer groups in the AAP part, are by definition different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How accurate is the Safe and Secure data? There was a significant offense at my son’s previous school in 2016 that was not reported on the list. Is it up to the principal to report? Is it just what goes on a disciplinary record? Could s suspension not be put on a student’s record?

This. LJ’s principal reports all infractions as required. Other schools do not. That is then used again the school to show how dangerous it is when in fact in fact it means the school is more on top of it.

This. But I would not worry too much about LJMS. Their AAP program is and will remain strong. I can’t speak to Gen ED as we’ve never been in Gen Ed. To the PP whose concern was about elitist/racist attitudes pulling away from the AAP, that is probably already a concern for many and why some AAP kids were already pupil placing out to TMS, moving to private for MS prior to this year.

Anonymous wrote:How accurate is the Safe and Secure data? There was a significant offense at my son’s previous school in 2016 that was not reported on the list. Is it up to the principal to report? Is it just what goes on a disciplinary record? Could s suspension not be put on a student’s record?

This. LJ’s principal reports all infractions as required. Other schools do not. That is then used again the school to show how dangerous it is when in fact in fact it means the school is more on top of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood why AAP students solidly in the Thoreau and JMHS boundaries go to LJMS for the AAP program there, then reconvene at JMHS freshman year. Why not simply take advanced courses at TMS? Why the special AAP arrangement at LJMS?

Wouldn't it be easier socially to stay with same group of neighborhood/base ES as you head into middle school?

Even with the boundary change, there is a belief among some AAP parents/kids that LJ is "more rigorous" and will therefore be a better launching pad to TJ. The irony is that many who insist on LJ (to launch to TJ) are actually coming from a pretty average (not rigorous) center. Funny to me that they think it is SOOO important to get the extra ounce of "rigor" from their MS experience when they have lived without it for the past 4 yrs of ES. But, whatever.

The answer to your question of "wouldn't it be easier socially..." --- yes, for some. But remember that in ES centers, the AAP part and the non-AAP part are really quite separate -- Because kids spend most of their time in one classroom, they have less "mix it up" time with non-AAP kids. So, socially, they might be staying with their kind by going to LJ rather than mixing with the "lessers" (in their minds) in a school like TMS where the mindset of the admin is very much "one school." No one is identified outright as "AAP" or "not AAP" at TMS. You may go to an AAP math, English, or Sci. class, but no one really labels you as an "AAP kid." Everyone is just a TMS student regardless of which class you are taking. The teams are not identified as being "AAP teams" vs. "not AAP" (even if they are grouped that way). The admin never says "... the AAP class is doing X.." The distinction is NEVER vocalized or publicized.

And for those who are hoping to go to TJ, they don't really care if they are in the same MS with kids in their pyramid, b/c they don't plan to be in that HS pyramid past MS.

You’re way off. Lj IS far more rigorous than thoreau. This is not about tj or about what education your kid had in elementary school. This is about middle school. Thoreau is essentially a slightly heavier version of elementary school.

True

Agree. But how will that play out when up against closet racists and elitists who would rather send their children to a more white and affluent school?

How accurate is the Safe and Secure data? There was a significant offense at my son’s previous school in 2016 that was not reported on the list. Is it up to the principal to report? Is it just what goes on a disciplinary record? Could s suspension not be put on a student’s record?

They use can de words like safety to mask their racism.

Where do racist ideas come from? I have a book for you. It is called “Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America.”

My daughter attended LJMS. She had a great experience there. She complained the Principal was a bit strict, but we never saw any discipline problems. The only people taking snack about LJMS are upper income parents with no kids there who think poverty is a disease that will be transmitted to their children. Mix ‘em up.

-- just to clarify -- when I said "including those that have higher percentages of minorities" I meant "higher" to mean a substantial number or higher than many others in FCPS. Not necessarily higher than Jackson's minority population.