Anonymous
06/12/2013 08:40
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:how do you know it's the in bounds students who are high achievers? According to DC CAS (I think), Adams grades with 60 something out of bound scored higher than Deal.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oyster uses Spanish education as an excuse for why the other subject areas are mediocre and watered down. I would love for Spanish to no longer serve as the proxy for mediocre.
If the leadership can't right this ship in this location, I shudder to think what it would be like in a new one.
It would be missing the high-achieving in-bounds kids, which is currently its real advantage over other public Spanish immersion options in the District. So... it would be a much less successful school on the whole.
The real difference between Oyster and other schools is the level of education of parents who speak Spanish, this includes Hispanics, foreign educated Anglos, in and out of bounds.
Try not to assume too much about the current families or what people would or would not do if the school were to move or change.
The growth of language charter options may have more impact than DCPS.
Wait--if Oyster's middle school students are outperforming every other DCPS middle school, and it's lower grades are scoring well on CAS, why does this school need to be fixed? It sounds as if someone is trying to "fix" a school that's not broken. Doesn't DCPS actually have a number of schools that are in real crisis? Oyster's "problems" sound like high class problems to me.
The problem is that it is inconvenient for the principal. As she and the faculty have made clear, that's really all they care about. Screw the kids and the parents.
Anonymous
06/12/2013 04:35
Subject: Oyster relocating?
beautiful planned campus, a sure winner.
Anonymous
06/11/2013 15:08
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:how do you know it's the in bounds students who are high achievers? According to DC CAS (I think), Adams grades with 60 something out of bound scored higher than Deal.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oyster uses Spanish education as an excuse for why the other subject areas are mediocre and watered down. I would love for Spanish to no longer serve as the proxy for mediocre.
If the leadership can't right this ship in this location, I shudder to think what it would be like in a new one.
It would be missing the high-achieving in-bounds kids, which is currently its real advantage over other public Spanish immersion options in the District. So... it would be a much less successful school on the whole.
The real difference between Oyster and other schools is the level of education of parents who speak Spanish, this includes Hispanics, foreign educated Anglos, in and out of bounds.
Try not to assume too much about the current families or what people would or would not do if the school were to move or change.
The growth of language charter options may have more impact than DCPS.
Wait--if Oyster's middle school students are outperforming every other DCPS middle school, and it's lower grades are scoring well on CAS, why does this school need to be fixed? It sounds as if someone is trying to "fix" a school that's not broken. Doesn't DCPS actually have a number of schools that are in real crisis? Oyster's "problems" sound like high class problems to me.
Anonymous
06/11/2013 14:55
Subject: Re:Oyster relocating?
I've heard that Bancroft looks much more like Oyster in the old days (70s-80s) than the current Oyster does--back then, Oyster had far more poor struggling immigrant families. I'm sure the test scores (assuming there was testing) were much worse. Of course I realize nobody on this DCUM thread wants to go back to the old Oyster. (Although you do see hints of it in the documents about moving--so somebody does.)
Anonymous
06/11/2013 14:29
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:how do you know it's the in bounds students who are high achievers? According to DC CAS (I think), Adams grades with 60 something out of bound scored higher than Deal.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oyster uses Spanish education as an excuse for why the other subject areas are mediocre and watered down. I would love for Spanish to no longer serve as the proxy for mediocre.
If the leadership can't right this ship in this location, I shudder to think what it would be like in a new one.
It would be missing the high-achieving in-bounds kids, which is currently its real advantage over other public Spanish immersion options in the District. So... it would be a much less successful school on the whole.
The real difference between Oyster and other schools is the level of education of parents who speak Spanish, this includes Hispanics, foreign educated Anglos, in and out of bounds.
Try not to assume too much about the current families or what people would or would not do if the school were to move or change.
The growth of language charter options may have more impact than DCPS.
Actually, the PP makes a better argument. It is true that O-A middle school students out scored Deal (and every other DCPS middle school), and the middle school at O-A is mostly populated by OOB students. However, OOB kids outnumber IB kids in every grade at O-A except K and 1st grade (it was a perfect 50/50 split in 2nd grade this past school year). As an IB parent, I know for a fact that many of those IB kids become OOB kids after a few years when their parents move to, typically, larger/less expensive homes. So actually, many of those OOB kids in the upper grades were initially IB, and they share a similar demographic profile to the kids/families that remain IB.
The REAL real difference between Oyster and other language immersion schools is that Oyster attracts better educated families who are both native English AND native Spanish speakers. That is due, in large part, to the fact the Oyster is located in an affluent neighborhood that many people perceive as safe and highly desirable. If Oyster becomes a citywide magnet, it will have to move, and it will lose its desirable location. The thing that the admin. won't seem to acknowledge is that Oyster's location is a big part of the reason it attracts the families it does, and why it is so successful. If you lose that element, the school will not be nearly as successful--just take a look at every immersion charter or Marie-Reed and Bancroft Those two DCPS dual immersion schools are within walking distance to O-A, yet they are struggling in every way possible. If O-A moves, it will be able to trade on its good name/reputation for a few years, until families slowly begin to realize that this is not the same Oyster that was in Woodley Park. It won't have the same mix of students and it won't be able to raise the same type of money for all of those extras...which increasingly are necessities. And by that time it will be too late. A great school will be destroyed for what? So the principal only has to visit one building?
Anonymous
06/11/2013 13:13
Subject: Oyster relocating?
how do you know it's the in bounds students who are high achievers? According to DC CAS (I think), Adams grades with 60 something out of bound scored higher than Deal.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oyster uses Spanish education as an excuse for why the other subject areas are mediocre and watered down. I would love for Spanish to no longer serve as the proxy for mediocre.
If the leadership can't right this ship in this location, I shudder to think what it would be like in a new one.
It would be missing the high-achieving in-bounds kids, which is currently its real advantage over other public Spanish immersion options in the District. So... it would be a much less successful school on the whole.
The real difference between Oyster and other schools is the level of education of parents who speak Spanish, this includes Hispanics, foreign educated Anglos, in and out of bounds.
Try not to assume too much about the current families or what people would or would not do if the school were to move or change.
The growth of language charter options may have more impact than DCPS.
Anonymous
06/11/2013 10:51
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Oyster uses Spanish education as an excuse for why the other subject areas are mediocre and watered down. I would love for Spanish to no longer serve as the proxy for mediocre.
If the leadership can't right this ship in this location, I shudder to think what it would be like in a new one.
It would be missing the high-achieving in-bounds kids, which is currently its real advantage over other public Spanish immersion options in the District. So... it would be a much less successful school on the whole.
Anonymous
06/10/2013 21:52
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latina here. I'm nearly fluent in English, but only speak to DD in Spanish. Same for husband. DD still seems English dominant. Some time I have to refuse to respond to her if she won't speak Spanish. Can I apply as Spanish dominant? I'm confused by all of the opinions on here.
Yes, apply as Spanish dominant.
Your post illustrates the whole problem with the precious 50-50 model and why the idea of blowing up the school and rebuilding it in service of this model does not make sense.
If even 25% of the kids were truly Spanish dominant in the sense of the definition, I don't think that 100% oF kid-kid communication would be in English.
Yes, apply as Spanish-dominant. That definition is intended to prevent native-English speaking parents from lying to gain admission via the OOB Spanish-dom lottery (i.e, children from English-speaking homes who become bilingual via preschool or a nanny). Now, all we need is for the principal to actually enforce the rule. Perhaps she intends to start enforcing the rule if the school moves and becomes a citywide magnet (typed with heavy sarcasm).
Good point. Perhaps she is also waiting until then to learn how to speak and write professional-grade Spanish (con sarcasmo tambien).
Anonymous
06/10/2013 17:17
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latina here. I'm nearly fluent in English, but only speak to DD in Spanish. Same for husband. DD still seems English dominant. Some time I have to refuse to respond to her if she won't speak Spanish. Can I apply as Spanish dominant? I'm confused by all of the opinions on here.
Yes, apply as Spanish dominant.
Your post illustrates the whole problem with the precious 50-50 model and why the idea of blowing up the school and rebuilding it in service of this model does not make sense.
If even 25% of the kids were truly Spanish dominant in the sense of the definition, I don't think that 100% oF kid-kid communication would be in English.
Yes, apply as Spanish-dominant. That definition is intended to prevent native-English speaking parents from lying to gain admission via the OOB Spanish-dom lottery (i.e, children from English-speaking homes who become bilingual via preschool or a nanny). Now, all we need is for the principal to actually enforce the rule. Perhaps she intends to start enforcing the rule if the school moves and becomes a citywide magnet (typed with heavy sarcasm).
Anonymous
06/10/2013 17:03
Subject: Re:Oyster relocating?
Sorry. Meant afterschool things in Spanish.
Anonymous
06/10/2013 17:02
Subject: Re:Oyster relocating?
Is she at Oyster? There used to be afterschool art, dance and drama. Many Latinos would like to see more extracurricular activities run in Spanish. OCA should be able to do more in Spanish since most are Oyster grads.
It is normal to go through phases of resisting a first or home language. It doesn't mean a child will never be fluent. Try not to make it a battle.
We give incentives like churros for dessert when dinner conversation is all in Spanish. We get DVDs from the library with Spanish tracks and give a treat only if they watch in Spanish. Our non-English speaking family give them lots of praise for speaking Spanish.
Being in a dual language school has been the most important aspect for us.
It is normal to go through phases of resisting a first or home language. It doesn't mean a child will never be fluent. Try not to make it a battle.
We give incentives like churros for dessert when dinner conversation is all in Spanish. We get DVDs from the library with Spanish tracks and give a treat only if they watch in Spanish. Our non-English speaking family give them lots of praise for speaking Spanish.
Being in a dual language school has been the most important aspect for us.
Anonymous
06/10/2013 15:56
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Is there a way for Latinos living here to try to keep the children as Spanish dominant? I'm having a lot of trouble. To be honest, I'm not sure why my child seems English dominant. She does watch cartoons in English and plays with English kids on the playground, but the majority of her exposure it to Spanish. She is very stubborn. I don't want to shut her out of going outside. I'm really afraid she prefers English so much, she may lose her Spanish altogether. FWIW, I will not allow her to speak to me in English. She puts up a fight, but if she wants something, she understands she will have to speak Spanish. Part of me wants to go back home, but the economy is terrible there right now and cannot work for my DH's work.
Anonymous
06/10/2013 08:38
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Latina here. I'm nearly fluent in English, but only speak to DD in Spanish. Same for husband. DD still seems English dominant. Some time I have to refuse to respond to her if she won't speak Spanish. Can I apply as Spanish dominant? I'm confused by all of the opinions on here.
Yes, apply as Spanish dominant.
Your post illustrates the whole problem with the precious 50-50 model and why the idea of blowing up the school and rebuilding it in service of this model does not make sense.
If even 25% of the kids were truly Spanish dominant in the sense of the definition, I don't think that 100% oF kid-kid communication would be in English.
Anonymous
06/10/2013 07:32
Subject: Oyster relocating?
Latina here. I'm nearly fluent in English, but only speak to DD in Spanish. Same for husband. DD still seems English dominant. Some time I have to refuse to respond to her if she won't speak Spanish. Can I apply as Spanish dominant? I'm confused by all of the opinions on here.
Anonymous
06/09/2013 23:21
Subject: Re:Oyster relocating?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: the SD rule at Oyster (google it—the definition for SD at Oyster does exist),
Is this the OA rule for Spanish dominant? It's what I found, and looks right.
"A child is considered "Spanish-dominant" if his or her native tongue is Spanish,
meaning that Spanish is the principal language spoken in the child's home and the child is
demonstrably more comfortable speaking Spanish than speaking any other language. In
addition, to be considered "Spanish-dominant" a child must demonstrate age-appropriate
language and linguistic development in Spanish.”
This is very interesting to me, because we come from a mixed family (parents both fluent in Spanish, only one native speaker), but deliberately only had Spanish speaking (no English) nannies because we wanted our kids to be bilingual. So Spanish was NOT the principal language spoken in our home when we were home, although certainly our child had "age-appropriate and linguistic development in Spanish". What made me so happy was that Early Intervention (child was a preemie, no lasting problems) identified dc2 as Spanish dominant. Once my kids started their English only schools, they continued to understand Spanish but would answer in English unless corrected. Including to the nanny and me (and we both continued to speak to them exclusively in Spanish). Then they started to forget it once they moved on to K and full time school and we let go of our child care. Had they started Oyster early that would not have happened, just not an option for us.
But my oldest dc, who has now completed two years of Latin first at Washington Latin and then Basis this year, will be taking Spanish next year as a non-native speaker (at BASIS they also have a track for native speakers who don't know how to read and write Spanish or Chinese, which was the case with my dh who grew up partially in his native Latin American country, with Spanish as a first language, but you would never know it now.)
And even after two years of Latin, dc1's Spanish has come back and is more grammatically correct. We have high hopes because it was basically the first language, and the only one spoken by dcs caretakers until they all went to preschool. I really admire you all who had the wherewithal to get your kids into bilingual schools. We did what we could, and the studies show that if a child speaks any two languages before a certain age (6?7?) it alters the neurotransmitters in their brains so that they can pick up the old native language they lost, or that one and another easier than monolingual children. My dc did really well in Mandarin when it was offered as an extracurric at her DCPS, and Latin (the language) has been a breeze, I think partially because of her prior Spanish.
So I just wanted to say that definitions aren't everything. Had we started at Oyster, we would not have qualified technically as Spanish dominant, even though that is what our kids were at that time.
I know nothing about the principal and her possible ulterior motives or whatever. I just wanted to say that technical definitions are not everything.
If I understand your post correctly, you mostly spoke English at home with your kid. Which explains why he/ she spoke English by default. That means your kid is English-dominant. The rest of you message explains why fluency in Spanish came easier than for other kids in the same school environment...but does not alter the basic fact that someone who doesn't live in Spanish and doesn't speak Spanish by default is NOT Spanish-dominant.