Anonymous wrote:The desperation in these posts says a lot. Nearly all SAES kids are Big 3 rejects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

This is a great question, and one that any prospective family should ask when considering a school based in a faith tradition.

Ours is a current SAES family, affiliated and active in the Reform Jewish movement. Our children attended religious school from K through HS and are active in our congregation’s youth group. Our children and family have found ourselves warmly welcome in the SAES community and attribute our SAES affiliation with a deepening of our own faith and community social action practices. We also have an anecdotal sense that the number of faculty, staff, and students who affiliate as Jewish or Jewish/other interfaith are significantly greater than the 10% SAES references in their promotional materials.

SAES is every bit as welcoming as they say in their recruitment materials. That said, it is also dedicated to its traditions as an Episcopal School. Religious practices at the school are clearly Christian, but they are in no ways exclusionary or offensive to those who’s faith traditions differ. One has to be comfortable hearing references to Jesus and the trinity. With last year’s unexpected departure of a long time school chaplain, references have grown from what Reverend Alexander used to lightheartedly refer to as “the twice a year” reference to Jesus: convocation and commencement to Reverend Isaacs’ preference for much more frequent reference to the trinity. Would we prefer the former, sure. Are we put off by the return to slightly more traditional texts, not at all. And when a newly appointed full time chaplain is brought in, they will likely embrace the school’s progressive values and bring their own approach to references of faith.

As with all topics related to comfort with a school, the only real way to assess is to visit and witness the programs for yourself. SAES open houses and the like are as authentic and true to form as it gets in showing what it’s like to be at the school. Visit soon and often and make your own assessment. You are bound to be impressed by the SAES community.

Hi to the family who posted above. We were a Jewish family when the last Chaplain joined SAES and we had the same concern about her style when she started compared to her predecessor. Now that the school year is half over, I encourage your children (if old enough) or you to talk about this with the new chaplain. Our kids and several others had some very productive discussions with her they eventually led to some changes in style that we found more comfortable. Sometimes chaplains really don’t understand how certain phrases can be heard/felt by a student who is not raised in their faith and when they do, constructive dialogue and changes can tskemplsceX

Curious - As an agnostic, I have no dog in this. But...Why choose a Christian school in the first place? Would you be ok with a Christian family coming to a Jewish school and asking the Rabbi to speak differently about Judaism just to appease them? Inclusivity is fine and all that, but this is an Episcopal school after all. Actively working to alter a faith-based school’s expression of belief to meet your own needs seems very presumptuous and is a slippery slope towards watering down the school’s religious voice.

Fair question, but there is a clear distinction. The Episcopal Schools pride themselves on their inclusivity and are often criticized by more heavy faith believers as "religion lite" That is a choice those schools make in their curriculum, admissions, etc. The religion requirement at SAES in middle and high school consisted of one trimester per year of religion, and by high school that was satisfied with classes in justice, classical philosophy, and other subjects beyond theology. SAES was nothing remotely like, for example, what I understand to be the case of many Catholic schools (to which I would never send my children for the reasons you suggest). At SAES, probably close to half the students identify as agnostic or, if they identify with an organized Christian faith, say they are not religious. Something like 11-12% of the students are usually said to identify as Jewish, but there were a number of mixed marriages where one parent was Jewish but the child wasn't being raised in any particular faith. For example, at one time a visiting chaplain enthusiastically urged the students to speak louder and with more vigor during responsive reading -- chiding them for being reticent. When it was pointed out to the chaplain that a very large number of students at the school did not adhere to the beliefs they were being admonished for not saying loudly, it didn't take that long for the chaplain to come to realize how inappropriate it was to use a pulpit in that way and apologies were conveyed that this guest speaker wasn't with the program. Contrast this was a Jewish day school. The major ones in this area that are not orthodox have a stated curriculum that is something like 40% Judaic studies, including studying Hebrew language and prayers. So of course I wouldn't expect that school to stop teaching those subjects to a Christian student who attends - you attend such a school because you want that curriculum. The analogy for SAES is that all students must attend chapel. You do not need to take communion, you do not need to recite prayers you don't believe in, but you are not excused from attending. During our time there, the Chaplain found it acceptable to often refer to God where she often used to refer to Jesus. Jesus certainly made an occasional appearance in the liturgy, but my sense was no more than necessary theologically.

As for your first question, we choose SAES originally in spite of its religious affiliation, not because of it. Over time, however, we came to appreciate that a light religious grounding really contributed to warmth of the school and so many of the students. We were much happier and felt more welcomed there than at a progressive, secular school where my children attended before SAES. SAES affirmatively respected religion -- all religions -- more than the secular school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

This is a great question, and one that any prospective family should ask when considering a school based in a faith tradition.

Ours is a current SAES family, affiliated and active in the Reform Jewish movement. Our children attended religious school from K through HS and are active in our congregation’s youth group. Our children and family have found ourselves warmly welcome in the SAES community and attribute our SAES affiliation with a deepening of our own faith and community social action practices. We also have an anecdotal sense that the number of faculty, staff, and students who affiliate as Jewish or Jewish/other interfaith are significantly greater than the 10% SAES references in their promotional materials.

SAES is every bit as welcoming as they say in their recruitment materials. That said, it is also dedicated to its traditions as an Episcopal School. Religious practices at the school are clearly Christian, but they are in no ways exclusionary or offensive to those who’s faith traditions differ. One has to be comfortable hearing references to Jesus and the trinity. With last year’s unexpected departure of a long time school chaplain, references have grown from what Reverend Alexander used to lightheartedly refer to as “the twice a year” reference to Jesus: convocation and commencement to Reverend Isaacs’ preference for much more frequent reference to the trinity. Would we prefer the former, sure. Are we put off by the return to slightly more traditional texts, not at all. And when a newly appointed full time chaplain is brought in, they will likely embrace the school’s progressive values and bring their own approach to references of faith.

As with all topics related to comfort with a school, the only real way to assess is to visit and witness the programs for yourself. SAES open houses and the like are as authentic and true to form as it gets in showing what it’s like to be at the school. Visit soon and often and make your own assessment. You are bound to be impressed by the SAES community.

Hi to the family who posted above. We were a Jewish family when the last Chaplain joined SAES and we had the same concern about her style when she started compared to her predecessor. Now that the school year is half over, I encourage your children (if old enough) or you to talk about this with the new chaplain. Our kids and several others had some very productive discussions with her they eventually led to some changes in style that we found more comfortable. Sometimes chaplains really don’t understand how certain phrases can be heard/felt by a student who is not raised in their faith and when they do, constructive dialogue and changes can tskemplsceX

Curious - As an agnostic, I have no dog in this. But...Why choose a Christian school in the first place? Would you be ok with a Christian family coming to a Jewish school and asking the Rabbi to speak differently about Judaism just to appease them? Inclusivity is fine and all that, but this is an Episcopal school after all. Actively working to alter a faith-based school’s expression of belief to meet your own needs seems very presumptuous and is a slippery slope towards watering down the school’s religious voice.

Fair question, but there is a clear distinction. The Episcopal Schools pride themselves on their inclusivity and are often criticized by more heavy faith believers as "religion lite" That is a choice those schools make in their curriculum, admissions, etc. The religion requirement at SAES in middle and high school consisted of one trimester per year of religion, and by high school that was satisfied with classes in justice, classical philosophy, and other subjects beyond theology. SAES was nothing remotely like, for example, what I understand to be the case of many Catholic schools (to which I would never send my children for the reasons you suggest). At SAES, probably close to half the students identify as agnostic or, if they identify with an organized Christian faith, say they are not religious. Something like 11-12% of the students are usually said to identify as Jewish, but there were a number of mixed marriages where one parent was Jewish but the child wasn't being raised in any particular faith. For example, at one time a visiting chaplain enthusiastically urged the students to speak louder and with more vigor during responsive reading -- chiding them for being reticent. When it was pointed out to the chaplain that a very large number of students at the school did not adhere to the beliefs they were being admonished for not saying loudly, it didn't take that long for the chaplain to come to realize how inappropriate it was to use a pulpit in that way and apologies were conveyed that this guest speaker wasn't with the program. Contrast this was a Jewish day school. The major ones in this area that are not orthodox have a stated curriculum that is something like 40% Judaic studies, including studying Hebrew language and prayers. So of course I wouldn't expect that school to stop teaching those subjects to a Christian student who attends - you attend such a school because you want that curriculum. The analogy for SAES is that all students must attend chapel. You do not need to take communion, you do not need to recite prayers you don't believe in, but you are not excused from attending. During our time there, the Chaplain found it acceptable to often refer to God where she often used to refer to Jesus. Jesus certainly made an occasional appearance in the liturgy, but my sense was no more than necessary theologically.

As for your first question, we choose SAES originally in spite of its religious affiliation, not because of it. Over time, however, we came to appreciate that a light religious grounding really contributed to warmth of the school and so many of the students. We were much happier and felt more welcomed there than at a progressive, secular school where my children attended before SAES. SAES affirmatively respected religion -- all religions -- more than the secular school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

This is a great question, and one that any prospective family should ask when considering a school based in a faith tradition.

Ours is a current SAES family, affiliated and active in the Reform Jewish movement. Our children attended religious school from K through HS and are active in our congregation’s youth group. Our children and family have found ourselves warmly welcome in the SAES community and attribute our SAES affiliation with a deepening of our own faith and community social action practices. We also have an anecdotal sense that the number of faculty, staff, and students who affiliate as Jewish or Jewish/other interfaith are significantly greater than the 10% SAES references in their promotional materials.

SAES is every bit as welcoming as they say in their recruitment materials. That said, it is also dedicated to its traditions as an Episcopal School. Religious practices at the school are clearly Christian, but they are in no ways exclusionary or offensive to those who’s faith traditions differ. One has to be comfortable hearing references to Jesus and the trinity. With last year’s unexpected departure of a long time school chaplain, references have grown from what Reverend Alexander used to lightheartedly refer to as “the twice a year” reference to Jesus: convocation and commencement to Reverend Isaacs’ preference for much more frequent reference to the trinity. Would we prefer the former, sure. Are we put off by the return to slightly more traditional texts, not at all. And when a newly appointed full time chaplain is brought in, they will likely embrace the school’s progressive values and bring their own approach to references of faith.

As with all topics related to comfort with a school, the only real way to assess is to visit and witness the programs for yourself. SAES open houses and the like are as authentic and true to form as it gets in showing what it’s like to be at the school. Visit soon and often and make your own assessment. You are bound to be impressed by the SAES community.

Hi to the family who posted above. We were a Jewish family when the last Chaplain joined SAES and we had the same concern about her style when she started compared to her predecessor. Now that the school year is half over, I encourage your children (if old enough) or you to talk about this with the new chaplain. Our kids and several others had some very productive discussions with her they eventually led to some changes in style that we found more comfortable. Sometimes chaplains really don’t understand how certain phrases can be heard/felt by a student who is not raised in their faith and when they do, constructive dialogue and changes can tskemplsceX

Curious - As an agnostic, I have no dog in this. But...Why choose a Christian school in the first place? Would you be ok with a Christian family coming to a Jewish school and asking the Rabbi to speak differently about Judaism just to appease them? Inclusivity is fine and all that, but this is an Episcopal school after all. Actively working to alter a faith-based school’s expression of belief to meet your own needs seems very presumptuous and is a slippery slope towards watering down the school’s religious voice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

This is a great question, and one that any prospective family should ask when considering a school based in a faith tradition.

Ours is a current SAES family, affiliated and active in the Reform Jewish movement. Our children attended religious school from K through HS and are active in our congregation’s youth group. Our children and family have found ourselves warmly welcome in the SAES community and attribute our SAES affiliation with a deepening of our own faith and community social action practices. We also have an anecdotal sense that the number of faculty, staff, and students who affiliate as Jewish or Jewish/other interfaith are significantly greater than the 10% SAES references in their promotional materials.

SAES is every bit as welcoming as they say in their recruitment materials. That said, it is also dedicated to its traditions as an Episcopal School. Religious practices at the school are clearly Christian, but they are in no ways exclusionary or offensive to those who’s faith traditions differ. One has to be comfortable hearing references to Jesus and the trinity. With last year’s unexpected departure of a long time school chaplain, references have grown from what Reverend Alexander used to lightheartedly refer to as “the twice a year” reference to Jesus: convocation and commencement to Reverend Isaacs’ preference for much more frequent reference to the trinity. Would we prefer the former, sure. Are we put off by the return to slightly more traditional texts, not at all. And when a newly appointed full time chaplain is brought in, they will likely embrace the school’s progressive values and bring their own approach to references of faith.

As with all topics related to comfort with a school, the only real way to assess is to visit and witness the programs for yourself. SAES open houses and the like are as authentic and true to form as it gets in showing what it’s like to be at the school. Visit soon and often and make your own assessment. You are bound to be impressed by the SAES community.

Anonymous wrote:SAES admission staff working overtime on this thread.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think St. Andrew's participates in a consortium with other nearby private schools. I don't know what schools or what offerings are made available through that process. Not sure when that started.

Full Disclosure. I went there (more than 15 years ago) and went to a good college, top 50 law school and got a job at 25 in a top tier law firm straight out of school. Although I was taking all advanced classes at Whitman, I was lost and on a downward slope. I was just not motivated and even in the advanced classes, they don't make the effort to motivate kids who are bright but losing interest. St. Andrew's completely changed that. I loved St. Andrew's.

Can you compare the academic rigor at Whitman to SAES?
Thanks for your feedback.

I will try but my information may be very dated and obviously for me, Whitman didn't work out so my feelings will be somewhat reflective of that reality. I finished high school in the early 90s. Whitman was very track oriented and socially very elitist. It really was a lot like the original 90210. Kids were either on the honors/AP track, normal track or the special needs/LD track. It was uncommon for kids to float between (even if a "normal" kid was consistently getting great grades). The teachers at Whitman were on cruise control. Some were very good. Others were clearly phoning it in but they were career teachers and weren't going anywhere. Lots of smart kids with smart parents. Cruddy teachers didn't impact the super smart or self-starters. They probably let down some middle of the road kids. I was a straight A student that had some health issues and that caused a loss of motivation. My grades dropped like a stone and I started skipping. Even in the honors track, such behavior did not warrant any call to my parents or anything. They found out what was happening when my grades came home. They were very involved parents so that was not the issue. There was just no accountability. I didn't do homework for days or weeks and nothing was done. I guess I am saying, I could have been the kid who was about to do something really bad and no one did ANYTHING and this is a school with no crime or real drug problems. I WAS the problem kid and they didn't bother. And again--this was in the classrooms with the smart kids. Heaven knows how much kids in the normal track classes were ignored. Also, sports at Whitman was a big deal. Maybe not like football in Texas but the athletes did get a little extra attention and were cut slack. I have family and many friends who graduated from there and that is the basis of my comments. They do have the zero tolerance policy (that wasn't there when I was a student) and that has probably helped. When I was there, drinking by the soccer team with coaches knowledge was a regular event. A typical football outing of coaches and male athletes was to hooters in rockville. All that said, Whitman is a very good public school but it is not the perfect "free private" or ticket to Harvard that some parents think it is.

When I was at St. Andrew's, there were no tracks. People with LD were in the same classes and were expected to keep up. They could ask for more time on tests but they didn't get a lighter or less challenging work load. Everyone was required to do a sport so there were no concessions for athletes versus non-athletes. Most kids also did another activity (model UN, band, etc.). APs were available as well. There was direct accountability and skipping did not exist. If a homework assignment was skipped, then detention was that day or maybe the next (if there was a doctor appointment or something). If that meant missing a sports practice, then the student was required to attend the game but would not be able to play. Those were direct consequences that made skipping an assignment much less desirable. I found the teachers to be enthusiastic and engaged. They were available after school and/or during study hall times if extra help was needed. I think 99% of my class went to college and I think that is probably better than Whitman. Schools attended by my classmates were Princeton, Colgate, Lehigh, Bates, Gettysburg, Vermont, WIsconsin, Michigan, Maryland, Barnard, Vassar, Richmond, Bucknell, Virginia, Virginia Tech (just typing as they come to mind). I think that is a good sampling of schools and today so many parents are focused on state schools because of price.

It is really an apples to oranges comparison. My Whitman class was around 350 kids while my St. Andrew's class was around 70. St. Andrew's does not have the brand name of some other privates or even like Whitman. However, it was a very good school for me and Whitman was a disaster. I would think about your child and his or her needs and temperament and go from there. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how does the school do with children from diverse religious backgrounds? If you're not Christian, will your family feel comfortable there? How religious is the E part of SAES?

Anonymous wrote:Amazing how some parents are willing to pay a lot for so little. I guess there are few options when you can't get into the Big 3, IAC, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They take too many kids in special education.

Yes, I see your point. I can think of two kids in my DC's SAES graduating class who before coming to SAES for middle school had been in some type of "special education" through MCPS for some of their elementary school years. After SAES, one of them attended one of the most selective universities in the country (think, single digit admissions rate) with a near perfect GPA from a competitive major that required a separate application after proving himself for three semesters, and is now thriving in his chosen field. Another is now getting a PhD from a major national university that is ranked in the top 10 in that student's chosen STEM program. They both still have many friends from SAES who they try to see when they are all back in town, and both periodically go back to SAES to visit their favorite teachers. They are both very interesting, hard working, and polite young adults. Yup, they must have been just awful influences on their high school classmates and the entire school, so I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want your children to attend any place that would be welcoming to these two scoundrels.