Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing for the permissive parent set, and frankly why we specifically avoided applying to high schools for our kids where this attitude seemed to be prevalent. It's a form of peer perssure for the parents. So if I don't allow my kids to go to your party where you are providing alcohol it means I will be perceived as a meanie, and my kids will be affected because they can't hang out with their friends. I don't want to be put in that situation.

And I don't buy the whole "well in Europe kids learn to drink more responsibly" stuff because in fact the rate of alcoholism and binge drinking is higher in many Europena countries.

Britain yes, lots of binge drinking. But I'd say no for France and some of the Mediterranean and Scandinavian countries.

I'm going to guess that there are permissive parents at every school. It probably depends more with your kid's classmates' families, from year to year.

Actually according to the DOJ study linked here the Scandinavian countries have much higher rates of binge drinking, especially Sweden. UK is of course the highest. Portugal is lower than the US. France not included so maybe it's lower, although data I've seen elsewhere suggests otherwise.

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/safety/docs/taskforces/ojjdp_feb01.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very simple, you guys: where there is more money, there is better and easier accesses to drugs.

The end.

That makes no sense. I'd imagine its just like rest of society. If I want to buy drugs in DC, do I go hang out on Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown? No.

Of course not. Because rich folks don't have to buy and sell on the street and risk getting arrested. They can do it behind closed doors, or in doctors offices

Once heard a piece on NPR about people who sell weed to rich people in Manhattan. They went to people's homes to make deliveries and they never worried about the cops because the cops were busting street dealers.

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing for the permissive parent set, and frankly why we specifically avoided applying to high schools for our kids where this attitude seemed to be prevalent. It's a form of peer perssure for the parents. So if I don't allow my kids to go to your party where you are providing alcohol it means I will be perceived as a meanie, and my kids will be affected because they can't hang out with their friends. I don't want to be put in that situation.

And I don't buy the whole "well in Europe kids learn to drink more responsibly" stuff because in fact the rate of alcoholism and binge drinking is higher in many Europena countries.

Britain yes, lots of binge drinking. But I'd say no for France and some of the Mediterranean and Scandinavian countries.

I'm going to guess that there are permissive parents at every school. It probably depends more with your kid's classmates' families, from year to year.

Here's the thing for the permissive parent set, and frankly why we specifically avoided applying to high schools for our kids where this attitude seemed to be prevalent. It's a form of peer perssure for the parents. So if I don't allow my kids to go to your party where you are providing alcohol it means I will be perceived as a meanie, and my kids will be affected because they can't hang out with their friends. I don't want to be put in that situation.

And I don't buy the whole "well in Europe kids learn to drink more responsibly" stuff because in fact the rate of alcoholism and binge drinking is higher in many Europena countries.

My point about the kid not showing up filled with post-surgery drugs is not that I trust the kid. It's that I know his or her parents well enough that I would be aware that the kid had surgery. His friends would have commented about the surgery. There is very few significant events in any of these kids lives that we don't know about. I'm not talking about a wide range of kids. I'm talking about kids we know very well. Families that we know very well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Are you sure you can tell? Because I probably couldn't always tell.

And unless you're searching them you can't prevent a kid bringing a handful of pills and popping them in the bathroom. To each his own, but I don't think I'd want to risk my own neck (legally speaking) based on trusting a teenager to not do something stupid because they so appreciate the ability to drink in the comfort of your home. Teens push boundaries, it's just part of being a teen.

Not the host but another PP. Look, kids can show up anywhere and do anything. They can pick your child up in their car for a seemingly innocent evening and be under the influence of something. They can slip your child something at a chaperoned school dance. They can offer him something at lunch time. You can't prevent any of this and coming up with these scenarios is ridiculous. There will always be scenarios. Frankly it seems less likely that something scary will happen when all the parents are on board and parents are present. Again, I wouldn't take PP's approach but I think the reaction is ridiculous.

So tell us, why exactly wouldn't you take PP's approach? I'm "Are you sure you can tell?" above, although not a scenario poster, and I'm not sure what you read into my post or other posts that makes you think we're over the top -- especially since you seem to agree with us about not hosting such a party in your house. Yes it's true, as you say, that my kid might easily get drugs or alcohol at school. Or my kids might go without my knowledge to the alcohol party at PP's house. I understand that I can't control much of this, and I think other PP's do, too. But here are my personal reasons for not wanting to have this party at my house: (1) some of the scenarios above are low probability, but not zero probability; (2) we would seem to be condoning it.

FWIW, we serve a glass of wine to our teenagers at big family dinners. When DC got accepted ED we offered champagne to a few of DC's friends after clearing it with their families. But hosting a teen alcohol party takes this to a whole new level of condoning things and risk-taking, IMO.

So why don't you give us your specific reasons for not wanting to host a teen alcohol party in your house?

+1 I am a scenario poster. Maybe those scenarios are unlikely, though given my experiences as a teenager at a private school (one of the "good" kids), I think they probably happen more than some people might think. There were a lot of "good" kids who self-policed really well with alcohol I knew who were dabbling with pills because they were really really easy to get. Maybe that has changed since I was a teen. I also see no problem giving a glass of wine or champagne to my kids at a big family dinner/holiday in my own home. The problem is when you host the teen alcohol party in your house, you're on the hook for what happens whether the parents give you a verbal ok about the beer or not. I'm not an attorney, and maybe these folks are getting written waivers or something from the other parents, but it didn't sound that formal in the post. That's where my reaction is coming from. It's not a "wow, you're crappy parents" since they sound like they clearly care about their child's safety, it's more of a "wow, you're taking a risk legally here." Apparently these parents think that risk is less of a risk than hoping a pick you up anytime no questions policy will keep their child from drunk driving or getting in a car with a drunk. I think I'd rather trust my kid to be responsible with a no drunk driving rule than to trust other people's kids not to do something stupid under my roof while I'm providing them with alcohol. I'd also be worried about one of the other kids mentioning it to someone not included in the house party and getting CPS called out. School staff = mandatory reporter, so if it makes it to the ears of a grown up at school... Guess I'm just a nervous Nellie about potential legal ramifications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Are you sure you can tell? Because I probably couldn't always tell.

And unless you're searching them you can't prevent a kid bringing a handful of pills and popping them in the bathroom. To each his own, but I don't think I'd want to risk my own neck (legally speaking) based on trusting a teenager to not do something stupid because they so appreciate the ability to drink in the comfort of your home. Teens push boundaries, it's just part of being a teen.

Not the host but another PP. Look, kids can show up anywhere and do anything. They can pick your child up in their car for a seemingly innocent evening and be under the influence of something. They can slip your child something at a chaperoned school dance. They can offer him something at lunch time. You can't prevent any of this and coming up with these scenarios is ridiculous. There will always be scenarios. Frankly it seems less likely that something scary will happen when all the parents are on board and parents are present. Again, I wouldn't take PP's approach but I think the reaction is ridiculous.

So tell us, why exactly wouldn't you take PP's approach? I'm "Are you sure you can tell?" above, although not a scenario poster, and I'm not sure what you read into my post or other posts that makes you think we're over the top -- especially since you seem to agree with us about not hosting such a party in your house. Yes it's true, as you say, that my kid might easily get drugs or alcohol at school. Or my kids might go without my knowledge to the alcohol party at PP's house. I understand that I can't control much of this, and I think other PP's do, too. But here are my personal reasons for not wanting to have this party at my house: (1) some of the scenarios above are low probability, but not zero probability; (2) we would seem to be condoning it.

FWIW, we serve a glass of wine to our teenagers at big family dinners. When DC got accepted ED we offered champagne to a few of DC's friends after clearing it with their families. But hosting a teen alcohol party takes this to a whole new level of condoning things and risk-taking, IMO.

So why don't you give us your specific reasons for not wanting to host a teen alcohol party in your house?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Are you sure you can tell? Because I probably couldn't always tell.

And unless you're searching them you can't prevent a kid bringing a handful of pills and popping them in the bathroom. To each his own, but I don't think I'd want to risk my own neck (legally speaking) based on trusting a teenager to not do something stupid because they so appreciate the ability to drink in the comfort of your home. Teens push boundaries, it's just part of being a teen.

Not the host but another PP. Look, kids can show up anywhere and do anything. They can pick your child up in their car for a seemingly innocent evening and be under the influence of something. They can slip your child something at a chaperoned school dance. They can offer him something at lunch time. You can't prevent any of this and coming up with these scenarios is ridiculous. There will always be scenarios. Frankly it seems less likely that something scary will happen when all the parents are on board and parents are present. Again, I wouldn't take PP's approach but I think the reaction is ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Are you sure you can tell? Because I probably couldn't always tell.

And unless you're searching them you can't prevent a kid bringing a handful of pills and popping them in the bathroom. To each his own, but I don't think I'd want to risk my own neck (legally speaking) based on trusting a teenager to not do something stupid because they so appreciate the ability to drink in the comfort of your home. Teens push boundaries, it's just part of being a teen.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Are you sure you can tell? Because I probably couldn't always tell.

Anonymous wrote:Do a search on DCUM for "pot brownies" for an example of how one elite area private school did not kick kids out for bringing the aforesaid brownies onto campus last year.

PP again. I should add, although mine wasn't one of the kids involved, I understand that the school did put the incidents on the records of the kids who were involved, so that colleges will see it. The schools (public or private) are pretty much honor bound to report things like this to any college a kid is applying to. If the school (public or private) fails to report something like this to a college, and the college finds the kid's history out some other way, the private school's own reputation would suffer.

Do a search on DCUM for "pot brownies" for an example of how one elite area private school did not kick kids out for bringing the aforesaid brownies onto campus last year.

I'm the parent that allows supervised drinking. We, and other parents, are well aware of the legal risks, especially in Maryland and Virginia and that's why we are very careful and have talked to the kids about those issues. One thing that I think is important is to have lots of communication betwen parents. No surprises. So nobody is going to let their kid show up, hopped up, on post-dental surgery drugs. But again, I accept the legal risks because I hope it avoids other risks such as binge drinking and drunk driving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:by the time some kids are juniors and certainly seniors, they are drinking. We do allow specific kids to drink in our house. We also allow them to drink at specific other houses. This gives us a lot more control. We talk to the other parents about who is involved and who has access to cars. Needless to say, there is all about facing reality and ensuring that there is no drinking and driving. The kids, so far, have bought in to this by policing each other. works for us, not everyone.

http://parentonthescene.org/legal.html

Here are your legal penalties if you are caught doing this. Not to mention the civil liabilities you could face if anything happened to a kid who you allowed to drink at your house.

I hope you have a good insurance policy to cover you if you get sued.

Agree. In high school I was at a "party" like this. Parents were home, provided the booze, everyone was going to sleep over afterwards. A kid was there who was still on painkillers due to having his wisdom teeth out. Of course he didn't disclose this to the homeowners and they weren't really monitoring us closely in any way beyond making sure no one drove. Alcohol + narcotics = very scary trip to the hospital for that kid and a lawsuit against the homeowners by the kid's parents. It also created a mess of a social situation between lots of adults who were friends at some point.

Again, PP had the permission of the other parents. Different situation.

Perhaps, but all it takes is one of those kids with permission to swipe some Xanax or Codeine or Valium from his home medicine cabinet or the homeowner's medicine cabinet and have the same result. Unless you're physically in the room monitoring the kids the entire time (and checking pockets when they get there and not letting them use the bathroom unsupervised which would just be very disturbing), you're running a huge legal risk, permission or not, if one of the kids decides to experiment by mixing pills with booze. Teens often think they are invincible and for many pills don't seem "scary" like heroin or meth, they seem tame, like alcohol or pot. Just saying, "control" can be an illusion.