But only if the child wants to succeed. That's a big if.

It's not trickle-down theory. It's a willingness to be colorblind and give all kids, black or white, low or high SES, what they need to succeed.

Anonymous wrote:This is the attitude that makes me feel hopeless^^^ People worried about how it "looks" and not understanding that investing in excellence will spread excellence throughout the system. Investing in mediocrity will get you, well, mediocrity. What in the blazes to kids have to aspire to? Where is their bar? There is more to education than you think. There is heart and soul. DCPS as it is squashes that.

...and this. Together.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC does not offer advanced, gifted, honors b/c more than 1/2 of it's three graders cannot read at grade level same for all their other grades. Kind of looks bad to offer advanced instruction for high SES kids (white, Asian, black) when the majority of the kids (FARMS, AA) cannot read.

Exactly. And...

Anonymous wrote:To 16:21, Previous posters have also alluded to the fact that culture also plays a big part in all of it. For example, the parents who have no problem getting their kid to sports activities but cannot be bothered with free tutoring and academic help. At best, academics is not promoted - and at worst, there is anti-intellectualism as DCUM posters have also noted.

There's a lot more to it that's deeply cultural than what schools are or are not doing.

16:21 here. I concur with one exception. Some parents can't even be bothered to get their children to sports activities or to be there to cheer the team. Culture is definitely a problem, and it's one that sometimes crosses class lines.

to 18:52
Yes I am a teacher and a recruiter. I do it all the time in order to accommodate my kids. It is quite tiring but not impossible.
There is so little direct instruction these days in public schools. Teachers prepare structured lessons but most of the time it is some form of independent work (at their desk with a paper or in cooperative groups or some kind of research where the teacher is the "facilitator".

The way students are taught in publics and charters is so much different than the way students are taught in privates. Do you think parents who pay all that money will accept it when their kid comes home with homework not having a clue what to do?
A couple days ago my middle schooler came home with science homework. I helped him quite a bit but there were a few problem I was not sure how to solve. I called a physics teacher who works in a very well regarded private high school. He was quite surprised and said these was more of an AP physics problems to students who had studied mechanics for at least a year.
Maybe there are one or 2 students in my child's class who are able to do very high level work. But what about the rest?

OP, here. I can empathize with a teacher in DCPS who might wince when hearing a kid that was in a charter is now going to be in their class, if their experience is that these kids are often the trouble makers and will add to the cohort of like minded trouble makers in the class already, making an impossible even more so. the teacher might feel dumped on. And, the easiest target for frustration might by the charter, or the system that allows charter schools in general to offload these kids.

At the same time, the bureaucracy of DCPS should be also considered as it is in the best position to solve this problem. Trouble makers should not be allowed in any DCPS classroom. In practice, does a DCPS teacher have recourse to suspend and expel bullies? If PP who wants an admission that charters are offloading problems to DCPS is a teacher, an honest and full answer would be welcome. Thanks in advance for your candor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You call them "less desireable". You do. I call them needing a specific, high quality educational model that perhaps differs from that of other students.

No lectures here. I teach many kids who have been kicked out of charters, for being deemed 'less desireable'. I am speaking from experience. Charters run kids out that they do not want to or cannot deal with, and the heavy lifting is done by the public schools, who get dumped on.

I can't speak for other charters but the instances I'm familiar with only "kick" kids out when they are expelled for being repeatedly violent and abusive to a criminal level to other students, to faculty and staff. Otherwise, they typically self-select out, after repeated failure after failure, being several grade levels behind and unable/unwilling to put in the extra work needed to come up to where they are supposed to be.

So... What is your magical cure for dealing with hard violence, or for miraculously bringing them up several grades? Or do you just sweep it all under the carpet like the rest of the DCPS system does? Care to share some HONEST reality about it?

Ugh. How can you not see the flaws in what you are saying? Where do those aggressive violent kids go? DCPS, that's where! There is no magic cure, and trust me when one of those kids ends up in your classroom, there is no sweeping it under the rug. I do not have a cure, as schools should not be the front line for generational poverty. Just saying that the charter response of removing them from school, is passing the problem on. Fine thing to do, but just acknowledge it.

It's a flaw to point out that charters expel criminally violent students and not have a solution for dealing with them, but it's perfectly fine and no flaw to point out that DCPS schools basically just passes the problem on to society and has no solution either?

I also disagree with the whole structure of this argument and here's how it's to be reversed: The beauty of having charters is that there is are opportunities, there are choices that can be made. Students that behave poorly, that do not make their education a priority are making a choice. As I see it, they are exercising their choice to go back to DCPS if they behave badly or don't do the work. The charters are the ones OPENING doors to a wide and diverse range of students. It's the students who are slamming those doors shut on themselves - most will do well - it's typically less than a single digit percentage that get kicked back to DCPS from charter schools in a given year. DCPS represents the status quo, it's where they would have been anyways, had there been no charters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, here. Why is this an inflammatory idea?

Because the predominant idea in DC is to be EQUAL (as opposed to being fair).

A few years ago DCPS conducted a research project called Hopes and Dreams to see what education stakeholders in DC wanted, and the top result was "an equal school system."

See this link: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Strategic%20Documents/DCPS-Report-Hopes-and-Dreams.pdf

Crabs in a barrel.

I do not think meeting the needs of different kids with different needs via different schools with different educational models is unequal at all.

What is crazy to me is wanting to meet the needs of different students via the same educational model. I say give people choices!

It is called differentiation, and anyone in the field of education gets inundated by this concept course after course regardless of the teaching method.
The sad thing however is that it is not being used, or is being used minimally by many teachers.
The same complex concept can be taught to the very advanced and below grade student in the same classroom if the teacher can create different test formats to accommodate all students. This way everyone ( including ESL, learning disabled) is served.
Not too difficult to do. It's just more time consuming but gives every student an equitable chance to grow and succeed.

Are you a teacher? This is incredibly difficult to do and means that you have to let other things slide in your teaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You call them "less desireable". You do. I call them needing a specific, high quality educational model that perhaps differs from that of other students.

No lectures here. I teach many kids who have been kicked out of charters, for being deemed 'less desireable'. I am speaking from experience. Charters run kids out that they do not want to or cannot deal with, and the heavy lifting is done by the public schools, who get dumped on.

I can't speak for other charters but the instances I'm familiar with only "kick" kids out when they are expelled for being repeatedly violent and abusive to a criminal level to other students, to faculty and staff. Otherwise, they typically self-select out, after repeated failure after failure, being several grade levels behind and unable/unwilling to put in the extra work needed to come up to where they are supposed to be.

So... What is your magical cure for dealing with hard violence, or for miraculously bringing them up several grades? Or do you just sweep it all under the carpet like the rest of the DCPS system does? Care to share some HONEST reality about it?

Ugh. How can you not see the flaws in what you are saying? Where do those aggressive violent kids go? DCPS, that's where! There is no magic cure, and trust me when one of those kids ends up in your classroom, there is no sweeping it under the rug. I do not have a cure, as schools should not be the front line for generational poverty. Just saying that the charter response of removing them from school, is passing the problem on. Fine thing to do, but just acknowledge it.

Anonymous wrote:Hi, where does DCPS send kids to? I am honestly curious? Can you name the schools or institutions?

kids drop out at 14, 15 16
They go to GED programs, or the streets

I am not sure where the ones actively removed go -- Oak Hill?

To 16:21, Previous posters have also alluded to the fact that culture also plays a big part in all of it. For example, the parents who have no problem getting their kid to sports activities but cannot be bothered with free tutoring and academic help. At best, academics is not promoted - and at worst, there is anti-intellectualism as DCUM posters have also noted.

There's a lot more to it that's deeply cultural than what schools are or are not doing.

An earlier poster alluded to the fact that most students who leave charters are "self-selected." That is very true. However, that is after a lot of counseling on the part of the school. It is definitely an advantage that charter schools have, and it works well for those who have waiting lists.

The more enforcement a charter brings to bear on families regarding attendance, student behavior, grades and promotion, the better the charter performs. The better performance creates more demand. And on and on it goes.

Higher expectations + enforcement + counseling out = better performance. You dig?

Anonymous wrote:5:20, parent here, both DCPS and Charter.

First, you couldn't be more right.

Second, thank you.

+1

Hi, where does DCPS send kids to? I am honestly curious? Can you name the schools or institutions?