Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:33
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
Huh? Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates? When OP earns $ she doesn't get to use the lower brackets unless she divorces DH$$$ first.
No you are about as dumb as rocks. Let's explain this in your idiot talk so many you will get it. Everyone 'uses' the lower tax bracket for the first part of their income. What you make beyond that gets taxed at the higher rate. So for example everyone's first 50000 or whatever gets. Taxed at a certain rate. Once you make over the max for that rate you get taxed more on the extra amount. Sorry I had to explain this like a third grader but you sound dumb. Oh. And in answer to your rhetorical question: you don't understand the marginal tax rate!!!!
and you don't understand the marriage penalty. if your husband makes $150K, then yes, all of your income is taxed at the higher rate.
PP again: ALL your income is not taxed at the higher level. In addition, a couple with this type of income disparity would likely see a marriage BONUS not marriage penalty. Only couples that have similar incomes would incur a marriage penalty.
?Couples in which one spouse earns all of the couple’s income never incur a marriage penalty and almost always receive a marriage bonus, because joint filing shifts the higher earner’s income into a lower tax bracket. ?Example of a marriage bonus: A wife earns $200,000 and her husband earns nothing. They have two children and itemize deductions equal to $40,000. Filing jointly, their taxable income is $146,801, on which their 2008 income tax liability is $27,848. But the AMT raises that liability to $30,825. If they could file separately, the husband as single and the wife as head of household with two children, the wife would owe taxes of $38,957 (including the AMT) and the husband would owe nothing. Their joint tax bill is $8,132 less than their combined individual tax bills, giving them a marriage bonus equal to 4.1 percent of their pretax income.
(see example details)
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/key-elements/family/marriage-penalties.cfm
dumbass, we are not talking about 100% and 0%, we are talking $550K and $50K. EACH DOLLAR OF THE $50K SHE MIGHT EARNED IS TAXED AT THE HIGHEST RATE. Jeeeeezus.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:30
Subject: Re:How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Open your own shop. You'll make way more than $40-$50k doing court appointed work alone. I left my private practice job with a small firm with big firm hours and have never looked back. I went from making under $100k and working 60-80 hours/week to making over $100 and working 30-40 hours per week (more if I have a trial).
What jurisdiction? I have no criminal law background other than crim law class. Would I still get court appointed work?
Yea, can you start an "ask me anything" thread?
This is one I'd actually read!
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:24
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
Huh? Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates? When OP earns $ she doesn't get to use the lower brackets unless she divorces DH$$$ first.
No you are about as dumb as rocks. Let's explain this in your idiot talk so many you will get it. Everyone 'uses' the lower tax bracket for the first part of their income. What you make beyond that gets taxed at the higher rate. So for example everyone's first 50000 or whatever gets. Taxed at a certain rate. Once you make over the max for that rate you get taxed more on the extra amount. Sorry I had to explain this like a third grader but you sound dumb. Oh. And in answer to your rhetorical question: you don't understand the marginal tax rate!!!!
and you don't understand the marriage penalty. if your husband makes $150K, then yes, all of your income is taxed at the higher rate.
PP again: ALL your income is not taxed at the higher level. In addition, a couple with this type of income disparity would likely see a marriage BONUS not marriage penalty. Only couples that have similar incomes would incur a marriage penalty.
?Couples in which one spouse earns all of the couple’s income never incur a marriage penalty and almost always receive a marriage bonus, because joint filing shifts the higher earner’s income into a lower tax bracket. ?Example of a marriage bonus: A wife earns $200,000 and her husband earns nothing. They have two children and itemize deductions equal to $40,000. Filing jointly, their taxable income is $146,801, on which their 2008 income tax liability is $27,848. But the AMT raises that liability to $30,825. If they could file separately, the husband as single and the wife as head of household with two children, the wife would owe taxes of $38,957 (including the AMT) and the husband would owe nothing. Their joint tax bill is $8,132 less than their combined individual tax bills, giving them a marriage bonus equal to 4.1 percent of their pretax income.
(see example details)
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/key-elements/family/marriage-penalties.cfm
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:19
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
Huh? Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates? When OP earns $ she doesn't get to use the lower brackets unless she divorces DH$$$ first.
No you are about as dumb as rocks. Let's explain this in your idiot talk so many you will get it. Everyone 'uses' the lower tax bracket for the first part of their income. What you make beyond that gets taxed at the higher rate. So for example everyone's first 50000 or whatever gets. Taxed at a certain rate. Once you make over the max for that rate you get taxed more on the extra amount. Sorry I had to explain this like a third grader but you sound dumb. Oh. And in answer to your rhetorical question: you don't understand the marginal tax rate!!!!
and you don't understand the marriage penalty. if your husband makes $150K, then yes, all of your income is taxed at the higher rate.
Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status
[Tax Rate Schedule Y-1, Internal Revenue Code section 1(a)] •10% on taxable income from $0 to $17,400, plus
•15% on taxable income over $17,400 to $70,700, plus
•25% on taxable income over $70,700 to $142,700, plus
•28% on taxable income over $142,700 to $217,450, plus
•33% on taxable income over $217,450 to $388,350, plus
•35% on taxable income over $388,350.
If you are married, your first 70,000 is taxed at 15% from 70,000 to 142,000 you get taxed 25% on that portion. From 142,000 to 150,000 you get taxed at 28%. You would not get taxed the whole 35% or 28% or whatever on every dollar from 0-150,0000. You still don't get it do you?
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:10
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
no, the PP is correct. That is the whole point. For purposes of deciding whether to work or not, the marginal tax rates are meaningless because you already hit those thresholds with your husband's income.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:08
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:People with the brilliant suggestion to just go get a government job. That market has become extremely competitive as well. OP has zero relevant experience - she's not going to be able to just waltz into the SEC, CFTC, etc. and gets some great experience to then lateral over to Big Law.
She should have taken a leave of absence from law school when she had her son. She could not have possibly had him at a worse time in her career.
totally agree. OP, why do you think the rest of us are having kids in our mid to late 30's?
-1 Totally out of line. OP was asking for job advice, not your judgment on her life choices. I know several (yes, several!) women who had children during law school. At least 1 was still able to get a biglaw job. Do you read DCUM? Do you see how many women struggle with infertility and problems associated with waiting to have kids, not to mention interrupting your career during your peak working years.
I was referring to the fact that people here make painful choices and yes risk infertility to try to balance everything and she just thinks it should come easy. She wants her cake and eat it too. I gave her job advice earlier. She needs to stop being so immature. I don't have to read DCUM to understand the choices females attorneys make because I am one. Piss off and don't project your own issues onto this.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:08
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
Huh? Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates? When OP earns $ she doesn't get to use the lower brackets unless she divorces DH$$$ first.
No you are about as dumb as rocks. Let's explain this in your idiot talk so many you will get it. Everyone 'uses' the lower tax bracket for the first part of their income. What you make beyond that gets taxed at the higher rate. So for example everyone's first 50000 or whatever gets. Taxed at a certain rate. Once you make over the max for that rate you get taxed more on the extra amount. Sorry I had to explain this like a third grader but you sound dumb. Oh. And in answer to your rhetorical question: you don't understand the marginal tax rate!!!!
and you don't understand the marriage penalty. if your husband makes $150K, then yes, all of your income is taxed at the higher rate.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 21:03
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I don't think so. She's already in the top income bracket because of DH's income, so all of her income is taxed at the top rate of 35% for federal, plus 8.5% if she lives in DC, plus 7.65 percent payroll taxes, which equals just over 50%.
.
No, no, no, no, no! I am consistently amazed at how ignorant people are of MARGINAL TAX RATES. The 35% top bracket only applies to a portion of the family's income. Everyone's first $10,000 is taxed at the same rate. If you are in the 35% bracket, you do NOT pay 35% of your total income in federal income taxes. My family is in the 25% bracket but our effective rate is much lower, maybe 15% once you count all of our deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Here is a quick explanation of how marginal tax rates work: http://www.moolanomy.com/1800/how-do-marginal-tax-rate-and-effective-tax-rate-work/
Huh? Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates? When OP earns $ she doesn't get to use the lower brackets unless she divorces DH$$$ first.
No you are about as dumb as rocks. Let's explain this in your idiot talk so many you will get it. Everyone 'uses' the lower tax bracket for the first part of their income. What you make beyond that gets taxed at the higher rate. So for example everyone's first 50000 or whatever gets. Taxed at a certain rate. Once you make over the max for that rate you get taxed more on the extra amount. Sorry I had to explain this like a third grader but you sound dumb. Oh. And in answer to your rhetorical question: you don't understand the marginal tax rate!!!!
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:51
Subject: Re:How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
It's hard to trade in raising my toddler for work that I would do now only for resume purposes
I agree with the PPs that you are surprisingly clueless. You want to get a job. You need experience to get the job you want. Why wouldn't you take a job only for resume purposes? How do you think you're going to get experience and to make yourself competitive? I don't care what you're profession is, it's what you need to do.
I also don't understand what you mean by "It's hard to trade in raising my toddler". Getting a nanny or sending your kid to daycare does not mean someone else is raising your kid.
You need to take a good hard look at what your reality is.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:42
Subject: Re:How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Had a kid during law school, toted my pump to my summer associateship, now working in a big firm. One of my colleagues (a woman) had *two* kids during law school. I'm not saying it's easy-peasy, but it's also not impossible.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:40
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
BigLaw is awful and it makes no sense to check out of your kids life when they hit the teenage years. That's probably the worst time to have two absentee parents.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:34
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
For what it's worth, no one here has mentioned contract work. Most positions are grueling e-discovery work which means sitting in front of a computer reviewing thousands of documents. It's terribly boring work but law firms need lawyers to do it. I've tried it but the money simply wasn't worth the upset to the family. There are agencies that place lawyers in these positions but pay can be as little as $15 an hour. By the time you've driven downtown and parked, you have to work a few hours to pay the parking. Some positions give a per diem to help out. IT's boiler room work but it does exist. It helps if you have fluency in a foreign language - the pay in those cases jumps. Good luck! Sorry people have been so mean here. Unfortunately the market is awful and it is true that the big law ship has sailed. But I did Biglaw for six or seven years and hated it. Far more rewarding to raise my children and do oddball legal projects that come my way.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:26
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:I am just so perplexed by the title of this post. Why would there be a huge number of lawyers who don't work because it's not worth it financially? If anything the salaries will outweigh child care, although again, this is not a concern of yours since your husband makes big money.
Why don't govt jobs "interest" you but big law does?? Many of those jobs are pretty dull (doc review anyone?)
You are clearly not a lawyer. To answer the question of the title of this thread: how many JDs do not work anymore because it isn't worth it financially? Answer: tons of us.
This thread has been dealing with much more that the title question because the OP gave more specific information in her post. But, as a SAHM with a JD and two kids that would need full time childcare, believe me, there are lots of us that have weighed the costs and benefits of working as a lawyer and decided it was better to stay home (financially and QOL).
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:18
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I never said that I consider govt jobs "lowly". It is simply not what interests me.
Whoa!! And this with all of zero years of experience. With this kind of attitude, you will have hard time holding whatever job you ever get.
Anonymous
10/17/2012 20:04
Subject: How many of you JDs do not work anymore because it is not worth it financially?
The question to answer is not "what do I make this year" but "what is my earnings path going to be?"
You know this.
You know this.