Turns out that Mitt Romney is running some commercials with "outraged" small businessmen upset over Obama's (edited) remarks. Full of indignation that the governnment had nothing to do with their success, harumpth, harumph. As NPR reported the other day, at least one (a NH business) received a government-backed loan, other Small Business Administration financing and has contracts with the US Coast Guard and the Navy.

Anonymous wrote:

Love how this uses the "..." to edit out the real meaning of his comment. So slick!

We can attest:

the Obama economy:

8% unemployment
1.5% GDP growth
YOU DIDNT BUILD THAT, obama / libtards did

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great. I think that each of us would love to direct our taxes to only the projects that we approve. But clearly this does not result in a functioning government. I personally would like our military budget cut in half and spent on assistance to the poor. I bet that less than a buck of your FFX county tax dollars bought granite countertops. I bet that tens of thousands of my tax dollars went to guns and bombs.

Good idea throw it away to poor people? At least military defends our country, employs many people, creates innovation. Poor people don't do any of that.

...Oh and you're funding big government innovation and a federal jobs program. Good to know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great. I think that each of us would love to direct our taxes to only the projects that we approve. But clearly this does not result in a functioning government. I personally would like our military budget cut in half and spent on assistance to the poor. I bet that less than a buck of your FFX county tax dollars bought granite countertops. I bet that tens of thousands of my tax dollars went to guns and bombs.

Good idea throw it away to poor people? At least military defends our country, employs many people, creates innovation. Poor people don't do any of that.

Uh if you want to choose how your money is spent, I get to choose mine. Screw you I pay tons more in taxes than you do.

Granite is about the cheapest and the most abundant stone on the planet Earth. Twenty years ago using granite for countertops was considered a luxury. Similarly, did you know that chicken was once considered a delicacy?

Today millions of homes have granite countertops. Granite is merely a rock and it's not much of a luxury anymore. If granite was overly expensive it would be a budget breaker and it would not be used in affordable housing units.

It's also plausible that granite countertops maybe be cost effective because of durability over the projected lifespan of the housing units. I've seen Formica countertops come unglued and peal back from the wood below which is unsightly and required replacements.

If we the people are going to build affordable housing, it might as well be decent durable housing.

How can so many Americans have such a simplistic view of the our very complicated political system. The Federal Reserve was created to prevent the wild swings in our economy. By regulating the money supply the Fed prevents the unemployment rate from going below about 4% which prevents people from selling their labor as a commodity to the highest bidder.

Corn and coal are commodities and they sell to the highest bidder, then why in a capitalist market place are workers not allowed the sell their labor according to the same laws of supply and demand as well.

Stop kidding yourselves we have not lived in a capitalist state for the last hundred years. Unregulated capitalism was a colossal failure which led to great economic failures and depressions every twenty hears until the Fed was created in 1913 and eventually grew teeth in the 30s.

The Fed guarantees we will always have at least 4% unemployment for the purpose of stabilizing the work force in its attempts to prevent the US economy from overheating or cooling down too much. Having unemployed poor people is the consequence of having a regulated economy that benefits the other 96% of the population. But, know from the start that a government that creates such a system will be required to provide relief in the form of food and shelter for its poor. The alternative would be bread riots.

Distribution of wealth is a very complicated matter. Don't fall for the demagoguery of who should and who should not have granite countertops.

This is such a great nation. Please be thankful for the many opportunities available to us all.

Anonymous wrote:Great. I think that each of us would love to direct our taxes to only the projects that we approve. But clearly this does not result in a functioning government. I personally would like our military budget cut in half and spent on assistance to the poor. I bet that less than a buck of your FFX county tax dollars bought granite countertops. I bet that tens of thousands of my tax dollars went to guns and bombs.

Good idea throw it away to poor people? At least military defends our country, employs many people, creates innovation. Poor people don't do any of that.

Great. I think that each of us would love to direct our taxes to only the projects that we approve. But clearly this does not result in a functioning government. I personally would like our military budget cut in half and spent on assistance to the poor. I bet that less than a buck of your FFX county tax dollars bought granite countertops. I bet that tens of thousands of my tax dollars went to guns and bombs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? It's not an extra cost and i don't get why you are measuring anyone's worth by granite countertops. Our HHI is 160k, i don't have granite countertops or the supposed status they endow, and I do not give a rat's patiootie if some poor fuck ends up with granite countertops if it means we don't end up with projects.

Get your head out of your bitter ass.

I'll ignore the ad hominem.

Of course it is an extra cost. On what planet would it not be an extra cost? I'm not measuring anyone's worth by granite. Where did I even come close to saying that. Don't put words in my mouth. We have similar HHI (yours is higher), and I don't have granite either and I don't really care that I don't. We are discussing rich and the poor and what society provides and where we should be looking to address the deficit. I offered the story of FFX County providing these perks as an example of wasteful spending (though you had to follow the thread for that simple context).

I can just see it now. You have some folks in FFX County government subsidized housing listening to Obama talking about the rich not paying their fair share. Their heads will of course start to nod up and down in agreement. Meanwhile they will serve meals on granite countertops and then hit the gym. You don't see the irony?

You are no different from the conservatives of three decades ago using the image of the welfare queen to attack poverty programs. As long as there is an anecdote that offends your sensibilities, you have a case against them.

Thing is, you'll always find an anecdote. They all drive cadillacs! (70s), their sneakers are nicer than mine (80's), look at the size of that TV (90's), I saw a kid with a Nintendo (2000's), cable/internet (2010's), and now you found someone with an iPad. In the 1880's some guy just like you wanted to know how some sharecropper came to own a fiddle.

I wish you would stop trying to box me into some caricature you have of a conservative. It is really tiring trying to have an intelligent conversation. The point is, we are spending too much on social welfare programs. As one small example, we should not be footing the bill for granite and gym memberships. I would love to have granite and a gym membership (well, I do have a membership to Oak Marr). If you disagree, then please give me some examples of things you would consider beyond the pale.

Let's play a little game so we can get a better handle on where folks are coming from. I prefer to donate to causes that I believe will help people directly. I don't much care for the middle man, and I don't much care to spend money lobbying the US government. I prefer direct action. Here is what I spend my money on: Children Inc., Plan International (formerly Foster Parents Plan), Whitman Walker Clinic, Nature Conservancy, and Homeless Animals Rescue Team. In addition, I have donated approximately 500 hours to Habitat for Humanity doing homebuilding. I'm proud of my record of trying to help others (including the four footed variety), and I'd really prefer my taxes not go to granite or gym membership when they would be better spent on any one of the causes that I just listed. Presumably you have a similar set of worthy causes.

The problems that people may not aspire to live on the dole, but they are content to stay on the dole because there is a "no man's land" just higher up on the income ladder called the middle class. No one wants to be middle class because it means being responsible for yourself and paying taxes to pay for others to live on the dole.

Ahhh yes... My highest aspiration in life now is to grow up and go on the dole...

Yea ME! ! ! ! ! !

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a level of subsistence and then there are the extras. Poor must eat, we should feed them. Poor must have shelter, we should provide them shelter, poor need education. We should provide them shelter. I'll even go so far as they need healthcare, so we should provide that and childcare, within reason.

However, in an effort to make sure the poor don't feel different because they are poor, we provide them money and give them discretion how to spend it. Poor people need basics to subsist and education to succeed not cash in hand. I am sorry, but sending a check and saying spent it on what you want is stupid. And if you don't want make someone poor feel bad and you therefore give them granite countertops and gym memberships, they have no incentive to not be poor anymore.

I am making sweeping generalizations, but the point is I work hard and I don't have granite countertops, a gym membership and I'll paying for my kids education for years after they go to school or they will. I am tired of being told I need to take care of other people's kids too. I worked my way out of the poverty level and others can too. And yes, I got subsisitence help from the government and I am ok with that. I kept food on the table when mom worked after dad died. But granite countertops are ridiculous. Helping the poor has gotten so derailed.

Dude. It i snot like FFX County is going into a poor person's house and installing granite countertops. They are working in conjunction with several condo and apartment communities(that may or may not have granite in them) to provide subsidized housing sprinkled throughout the county to avoid the problems of crime and lack of upward mobility that come with grouping all lower income people in projects or ghettos.

Can you not see that? Can you not see how it is better to not segregate the poor? AS for your straw man of a 24 hour gym: 1. it will help prevent the obesity problem you decry and 2. It is not like a Lifetime membership--it is the free gym at the housing complex in most cases.

Yes they are you can thank bulova the moron for this one
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article/20110708/OPINION/707089712/1076/news&source=RSS&template=fairfaxTimes
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2440968

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? It's not an extra cost and i don't get why you are measuring anyone's worth by granite countertops. Our HHI is 160k, i don't have granite countertops or the supposed status they endow, and I do not give a rat's patiootie if some poor fuck ends up with granite countertops if it means we don't end up with projects.

Get your head out of your bitter ass.

I'll ignore the ad hominem.

Of course it is an extra cost. On what planet would it not be an extra cost? I'm not measuring anyone's worth by granite. Where did I even come close to saying that. Don't put words in my mouth. We have similar HHI (yours is higher), and I don't have granite either and I don't really care that I don't. We are discussing rich and the poor and what society provides and where we should be looking to address the deficit. I offered the story of FFX County providing these perks as an example of wasteful spending (though you had to follow the thread for that simple context).

I can just see it now. You have some folks in FFX County government subsidized housing listening to Obama talking about the rich not paying their fair share. Their heads will of course start to nod up and down in agreement. Meanwhile they will serve meals on granite countertops and then hit the gym. You don't see the irony?

You are no different from the conservatives of three decades ago using the image of the welfare queen to attack poverty programs. As long as there is an anecdote that offends your sensibilities, you have a case against them.

Thing is, you'll always find an anecdote. They all drive cadillacs! (70s), their sneakers are nicer than mine (80's), look at the size of that TV (90's), I saw a kid with a Nintendo (2000's), cable/internet (2010's), and now you found someone with an iPad. In the 1880's some guy just like you wanted to know how some sharecropper came to own a fiddle.

Love it. And, that about sums it up in a nutshell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? It's not an extra cost and i don't get why you are measuring anyone's worth by granite countertops. Our HHI is 160k, i don't have granite countertops or the supposed status they endow, and I do not give a rat's patiootie if some poor fuck ends up with granite countertops if it means we don't end up with projects.

Get your head out of your bitter ass.

I'll ignore the ad hominem.

Of course it is an extra cost. On what planet would it not be an extra cost? I'm not measuring anyone's worth by granite. Where did I even come close to saying that. Don't put words in my mouth. We have similar HHI (yours is higher), and I don't have granite either and I don't really care that I don't. We are discussing rich and the poor and what society provides and where we should be looking to address the deficit. I offered the story of FFX County providing these perks as an example of wasteful spending (though you had to follow the thread for that simple context).

I can just see it now. You have some folks in FFX County government subsidized housing listening to Obama talking about the rich not paying their fair share. Their heads will of course start to nod up and down in agreement. Meanwhile they will serve meals on granite countertops and then hit the gym. You don't see the irony?

You are no different from the conservatives of three decades ago using the image of the welfare queen to attack poverty programs. As long as there is an anecdote that offends your sensibilities, you have a case against them.

Thing is, you'll always find an anecdote. They all drive cadillacs! (70s), their sneakers are nicer than mine (80's), look at the size of that TV (90's), I saw a kid with a Nintendo (2000's), cable/internet (2010's), and now you found someone with an iPad. In the 1880's some guy just like you wanted to know how some sharecropper came to own a fiddle.