Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here - I think this thread neatly dekonstrates why we should have a community norm that termination threads by women wbi have already mads the decision are NOT the place to debate abortion. We can debate it elsewhere on dcum, but not where the woman has made up her mind and is not seeking counsel on that point.

But the OP WAS torn. She had concerns. She had not been offered perinatal hospice. She was worried about the expense and the risks.

A mother who held her child in her arms as she died was called a horrible person. THAT was a mean, brutal thing to say.

She wasn't torn. She had made her decision. She was asking for information on the best way to implement her decision. And, after making this painful decision, she was hammered with a bunch of baseless crap about torturing babies. As the OP noted in a follow-up post, she was fully aware of what this abortion entails. She neither asked for nor was otherwise missing this information. And yet, here it came, twisted to make it as painful and harsh as possible.

You know what I didn't see from the anti-choicers? "Hey, OP, do you need any additional information on alternatives? I can provide it if you do." Nope, just guilt and shock and pain.

It is possible to be anti-choice and not be a douche. Really. I've seen it done. Try it sometime.

She wasn't hammered, it was certainly not baseless information, and no one said "torture" except for you. Do you think a late term abortion is torturous for the fetus? I don't know, perhaps you do. I think your political agenda and heavy bias actually blinds you to the words that others are saying. Additionally, you continue to throw around insults and angrily call us "anti-choice". You are the one being condescending and trying to silence reasonable and legitimate, though opposing, voices. We are women that do not think abortion is healthy - in mind, body or spirit - for women, the babies they carry, and the fathers/extended families of those babies and women. Our voice is gentle, rational, and loving - much like yours; yet different in perspective. Our viewpoint is not one of hate and, despite the venom continually thrown our way, we continue to respond peacefully and respectfully.

It is fascinating to me that only in the posts where an OP wants support for an abortion, does this fight break out. Only in this type of thread do dozens of people attack anyone with even the slightest differing viewpoint. The OPs in these threads are big girls. If they adamantly do not want to hear one shred of opinion or fact that sheds a different light on the subject, they could word their OP to say something like "Please do not respond with any different opinion whatsoever" ... or perhaps not post their question here at all. Everybody who has ever read anything here knows that digressions, debates and differing opinions are par for the course, even when it is an extremely delicate topic.

Anonymous wrote:I had meds, but they generally don't cross the placenta, and baby was awake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here - I think this thread neatly dekonstrates why we should have a community norm that termination threads by women wbi have already mads the decision are NOT the place to debate abortion. We can debate it elsewhere on dcum, but not where the woman has made up her mind and is not seeking counsel on that point.

But the OP WAS torn. She had concerns. She had not been offered perinatal hospice. She was worried about the expense and the risks.

A mother who held her child in her arms as she died was called a horrible person. THAT was a mean, brutal thing to say.

She wasn't torn. She had made her decision. She was asking for information on the best way to implement her decision. And, after making this painful decision, she was hammered with a bunch of baseless crap about torturing babies. As the OP noted in a follow-up post, she was fully aware of what this abortion entails. She neither asked for nor was otherwise missing this information. And yet, here it came, twisted to make it as painful and harsh as possible.

You know what I didn't see from the anti-choicers? "Hey, OP, do you need any additional information on alternatives? I can provide it if you do." Nope, just guilt and shock and pain.

It is possible to be anti-choice and not be a douche. Really. I've seen it done. Try it sometime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here - I think this thread neatly dekonstrates why we should have a community norm that termination threads by women wbi have already mads the decision are NOT the place to debate abortion. We can debate it elsewhere on dcum, but not where the woman has made up her mind and is not seeking counsel on that point.

But the OP WAS torn. She had concerns. She had not been offered perinatal hospice. She was worried about the expense and the risks.

A mother who held her child in her arms as she died was called a horrible person. THAT was a mean, brutal thing to say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OPer made a totally rational request. The response of the Pro Life supporters was/is totally predictable. The Pro Life supporter's never show an iota of respect for the mother's feelings/wishes. They are always Hell bent on saving the life of of the fetus and have never demonstrated any concern for the mother's well being.
Lesson learned, don't try conduct a rational discussion with a group only capable of operating in send mode, receiving mode is totally inoperative with these zealots

Agreed pp! And I think it's the same anti- abortion poster who keeps spewing her hate in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:The anti-choice poster here is trying to pretend that she's just presenting the unbiased facts of how second-trimester abortions proceed. Well, I for one, don't consider the National Right to Life Campaign an unbiased source. The truth is that the medical community has no consensus about when a fetus feels pain. Different studies have shown everything from 18-29 weeks or later - for the release of stress hormones. Whether a fetus has the context to understand that as "pain" is a different question.

But, for instance, when my 22 week old had to undergo surgery while still in the womb - would you have suggested that she be offered anesthesia? Or that I should have forgone lifesaving surgery because she was being "torn apart" without anesthesia?

These questions are complicated, and believe me, women can get all the information they need from, for instance, their genetics counselor without turning to someone like you who is trying to promote an agenda.To pretend that women don't seek information (the information that THEY think is important for their family's decision making) and agonize over these situation shows a profound disrespect for women going through a traumatic event.

Anonymous wrote:The OPer made a totally rational request. The response of the Pro Life supporters was/is totally predictable. The Pro Life supporter's never show an iota of respect for the mother's feelings/wishes. They are always Hell bent on saving the life of of the fetus and have never demonstrated any concern for the mother's well being.
Lesson learned, don't try conduct a rational discussion with a group only capable of operating in send mode, receiving mode is totally inoperative with these zealots

Anonymous wrote:The anti-choice poster here is trying to pretend that she's just presenting the unbiased facts of how second-trimester abortions proceed. Well, I for one, don't consider the National Right to Life Campaign an unbiased source. The truth is that the medical community has no consensus about when a fetus feels pain. Different studies have shown everything from 18-29 weeks or later - for the release of stress hormones. Whether a fetus has the context to understand that as "pain" is a different question.

But, for instance, when my 22 week old had to undergo surgery while still in the womb - would you have suggested that she be offered anesthesia? Or that I should have forgone lifesaving surgery because she was being "torn apart" without anesthesia?

These questions are complicated, and believe me, women can get all the information they need from, for instance, their genetics counselor without turning to someone like you who is trying to promote an agenda.To pretend that women don't seek information (the information that THEY think is important for their family's decision making) and agonize over these situation shows a profound disrespect for women going through a traumatic event.

Anonymous wrote:The anti-choice poster here is trying to pretend that she's just presenting the unbiased facts of how second-trimester abortions proceed. Well, I for one, don't consider the National Right to Life Campaign an unbiased source. The truth is that the medical community has no consensus about when a fetus feels pain. Different studies have shown everything from 18-29 weeks or later - for the release of stress hormones. Whether a fetus has the context to understand that as "pain" is a different question.

But, for instance, when my 22 week old had to undergo surgery while still in the womb - would you have suggested that she be offered anesthesia? Or that I should have forgone lifesaving surgery because she was being "torn apart" without anesthesia?

These questions are complicated, and believe me, women can get all the information they need from, for instance, their genetics counselor without turning to someone like you who is trying to promote an agenda.To pretend that women don't seek information (the information that THEY think is important for their family's decision making) and agonize over these situation shows a profound disrespect for women going through a traumatic event.