I do believe that there are some families this works for - where the wife has no serious career goals, does not need tons of timd with her husband, and finds staying home and the money rewarding, and the husband does manage just enough time home so the kids know him. But they aren't in the majority. And let me tell you, it is very hard to see a dad working 80 hrs a wek with a newborn. It really does make you wonder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Not necessarily, PP. Which was my point. It's not the career that's as critical as what the parent does with their time off. You can have a parent home by 4 PM everyday and still not have an attentive parent. It would be nice to think that slower paced career = more available engaged parent, but it's not that simple. And just because you have a few hours with your kids a week, doesn't mean those aren't quality, engaged periods of time where the kids get undivided attention from parents. It's what you make of those hours every week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Not necessarily, PP. Which was my point. It's not the career that's as critical as what the parent does with their time off. You can have a parent home by 4 PM everyday and still not have an attentive parent. It would be nice to think that slower paced career = more available engaged parent, but it's not that simple. And just because you have a few hours with your kids a week, doesn't mean those aren't quality, engaged periods of time where the kids get undivided attention from parents. It's what you make of those hours every week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

I've found this to be true as well. Unfortunately.

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I feel that some of the more critizing posters are missing about having a spouse in these jobs and saying how important family time is etc, is that several of us are able to be home with our children because of our spouse's income. My kids get me all day everyday, they get my husband every morning (and I get his help) and we spend most weekends together. Yes he misses dinner with the kids, but he and I normally eat together. There are plenty of trade offs in life, but if you're argument against having a spouse in these jobs is not spending quality time, then remember that my kids get their mother (who is thrilled to be able to) home with them, and we don't need to rush around every morning, put them in day care and then race home for the magical family dinner. Don't get me wrong - that is very important, but I feel lucky to be able to give them my time and we get lots and lots of time as a family AND as a couple - we make it a priority AND I think his firm is a tad more family friendly, so maybe that helps.

Sorry, but you are missing the point. We are talking about the difference between a spouse working constant extreme hours or more conventional hours. No parameters on whether or not there is a SAHM.

Anonymous wrote:21:02 again. Somehow finding time for each other has never been much of a problem.

Maybe b/c I'm a late night person. So we usually get an hour together most nights. We both probably forgo sleep more than others, we will stay up till 12 or 1 Friday or Saturday night (but never both). We try to go on a date 2-3 weekends a month, but some months we don't even get one in.

I guess when I was working for a fifth the pay (he does now) and coming home at 10pm and we didn't have kids we probably saw each other less than we do now. Then I was so tired and cranky I didn't want to be social, now we're looking forward to each other and we have our own routines for relaxing together.

We usually go on one week long vacation every 2-3 years without the kids, (we say we should do it every year but we usually go on a family trip instead) and we try to get 2 additional weekend trips in per year, even if the kids are with us but stay in Grandma's hotel room instead of ours.

We spring for suites when possible when we travel as a family so we have our time together in the evening after the kids go to sleep.

Maybe since we've never been the kind of people to be home at 6pm (even before kids and big-law) it just seems natural.

Anonymous wrote:And also, what kind of involvement with the kids?

My spouse gets home between 8:30 and 10 most nights. Does not help in mornings with kids but sleeps in so he can be productive at work. Helps out at least 1 day per weekend -- other one is usually spent at office. Trying to gauge if this is the norm.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the ladies know what they are getting into from the get-go. In fact, I am dealing with a vendor and this young girl is engaged to an attorney. She leaves meetings with a to-do list of errands for him -- pick up dry cleaning, run to bank, post office, etc. In the days that they were dating, etc. she was already doing his laundry, and baiting him with the benefits of her skills to help him out. When I asked her why she does this, she said frankly that he is really busy at this job and makes a lot more than her. Unfortunately, for these young ladies, you make your bed early this way and you shall lay in it forever, until he finds that young associate more enthralling than you !