Anonymous wrote:I want a calm educational environment that values and supports, not ridicules, education. Kids that don't look like my kids? Great. Poor kids? Great. Kids who disrupt the classroom throughout the day, and intimidate others and model aggressive, in-your-face, unkind behavior on the playground and before and after school and in the halls, NO. And no 200 million dollar facility can change kids' behavior. If my kid's classroom can take on some of these kids, help them with their behavior and goal setting etc, without compromising the learning environment, that's even better, but I am not going to subject my kids to a dysfunctional learning environment. And it is not racism. Don't you think parents of all races and income levels want the same for their child?

+1

Re: Segregation: I want to segregate my kids not on the basis race or class, but on behavior. I don't want them distracted/anxious due to being around violent, loud, trash-talking, confrontational kids who do not show respect for others or for their teachers. I want a calm educational environment that values and supports, not ridicules, education. Kids that don't look like my kids? Great. Poor kids? Great. Kids who disrupt the classroom throughout the day, and intimidate others and model aggressive, in-your-face, unkind behavior on the playground and before and after school and in the halls, NO. And no 200 million dollar facility can change kids' behavior. If my kid's classroom can take on some of these kids, help them with their behavior and goal setting etc, without compromising the learning environment, that's even better, but I am not going to subject my kids to a dysfunctional learning environment. And it is not racism. Don't you think parents of all races and income levels want the same for their child?

Anonymous wrote:As I read these posts, it appears that most people want segregated schools. These schools would be segregated by income levels, not race, but segregated nonetheless. Is that a fair conclusion?

This is probably correct. Now, you've got to demonstrate that this desire is 100% unjustifiable in se.

I'd say MOST Americans with the means to achieve it not only WANT schools that are segregated by income level, but they HAVE such schools. Most Americans who can afford it move to the best neighborhood they can afford where most people are of a similar income level to them. No one thinks it's unseemly or out of the ordinary that folks in North Arlington/Fairfax County have done this. But in a small, dense city like Alexandria, where public housing complexes and million dollar neighboroods adjoin each other cheek to jowl, that's not really an option. Some of us accept this because we love Alexandria and are okay with (or even want) this diversity. Some of us choose private schools to shield our kids from the wrong crowd. Some of us move when our kids hit certain ages. And some of us wish Alexandria would reduce/disperse the public housing so that the problems wouldn't be quite so dramatic and wouldn't pose such challenges for the schools.

As I read these posts, it appears that most people want segregated schools. These schools would be segregated by income levels, not race, but segregated nonetheless. Is that a fair conclusion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's plenty of section 8 housing in Arlington - and food stamps, pedophiles, drugs, low lifes etc. etc. Even so, it is a nice place to live in pockets - as is Alexandria. You can get away from the section 8 and still live in Alexandria......problem is, you may not be able to afford it - which may be the reason to move, and in that case, I do not blame you. There is not one school in Arlington that doesn't have some of the elements you are trying to get away from. And, when it comes down to it - there are probably more single parent, less educated middle and lower middle class kids for your kids to pal around with. Just sayin.....be careful what you wish for.

There are in fact several schools in Arlington without these elements. More importantly, even in the schools where these elements exist, they don't dominate the culture of the school the way they do in Alexandria for some reason. The achievement numbers and parental satisfication levels support this.

Sure but Alexandria is smaller than Arlington and has a larger mass of low income residents and actually has full fledged areas of public housing - not just people receiving Section 8 vouchers to live in market rate housing but whole communities and developments that are old, ugly public housing. They are oddly interspersed throughtout the City and you can't miss them. If you drive down Duke St. one of them sits right in front of a really nice townhouse development for example.

There is no "North Arlington" in Alexandria City. Not even in Old Town. Well there is South Old Town but is it so small that it could never rival North Arlington. Also, the City buses kids to other schools which I am not aware that Arlington does.

No, Alexandria City is far different from Arlington. We have 2 middle schools and one high school. In Arlington, you can effectivley choose to escape low income neighbors by moving to North Arlington.

Yes, I'm familiar with all of these excuses. How does this make a case for ACPS? You just pointed out the same shortcomings that cause people to leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's plenty of section 8 housing in Arlington - and food stamps, pedophiles, drugs, low lifes etc. etc. Even so, it is a nice place to live in pockets - as is Alexandria. You can get away from the section 8 and still live in Alexandria......problem is, you may not be able to afford it - which may be the reason to move, and in that case, I do not blame you. There is not one school in Arlington that doesn't have some of the elements you are trying to get away from. And, when it comes down to it - there are probably more single parent, less educated middle and lower middle class kids for your kids to pal around with. Just sayin.....be careful what you wish for.

Actually there is no public housing in Arlington. There is a rent assistance program with units all over from Rosslyn along the whole metro line, and along Columbia Pike BUT the wait list for this was 5 years long! And it's now closed.

Alexandria I believe does have public housing in addition to rent assistance.

As far as the schools, there are actually schools in Arlington with less than a dozen 'economically disadvantaged' kids. I don't know what you mean by 'be careful what you wish for' in that regard, I think the PPs are complaining that even the most expensive neighborhoods' schools in Alexandria are not great- and that is frustrating.

Fact check. Arlington County does not have a housing authority that owns public housing (the typical model in urban areas). Alexandria does. Arlington works with nonprofit partners to provide affordable housing. Essentially, the County gives these nonprofit partners money and they buy buildings and rehab them under the requirement that rents need to be low, etc. Arlington does have a very healthy Section 8 program ($15 million annually) and the County further funds rental assistance for low-income residents with County funds to the tune of $7 million annually. Alexandria's model of public housing is also just really out of date. It's no longer considered good policy to dump a whole bunch of poor people in one area and hope for the best (Cabrini Green anyone?). Alexandria is actually in the process of tearing down much of the public housing in the Braddock Road Metro area and turning it into mixed-income housing. But the process takes a long time.

I think Alexandria and Arlington face a lot of the same challenges (ESL, low-income students). But Arlington's government has historically done a much better job of planning and structuring their community...way back to the 1970s when they decided to put the metro underground, the decision NOT to have a housing authority and to work with non-profit partners instead to meet affordable housing needs, etc.

It's too bad because I think Alexandria neighborhoods have a lot more charm than anything in Arlington. But Arlington is just a better run government that's made better decisions over many decades. And the schools are a reflection of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's called diversity. Just sayin' I know I know this concept is probably way over the head of those who grew up in those nice Midwestern areas?! I'm sure there are no drug dealers/users in the Midwest Your children will one day have to deal with others from...wait for it...shudder PUBLIC. HOUSING.

So, pp, when your dc have playdates with these kids from the projects, who hosts?

I grew up in the bronx. So "playdates" at the projects don't strike fear in my heart. I'm sorry you're so sheltered.

Most people who grew up with drunken fights, the neighbor's kids screaming, friends being dragged off by CPS etc etc. WANT to shelter their children from those experiences - just like the people who have never experienced them-.
You don't. Well, either you overrate being 'streetsmart', especially for the 10 yr olds we're talking about here, or you are just throwing 'the bronx' at us, hoping that noone calls your BS - the Bronx has very affluent areas, too.

There is a difference b/w wanting or delivering a "better" life for your child, and "sheltering" them from children who are living it, and have not chosen or asked to live that way. It's frankly disgusting to me to think that people act like their child is too good to attend school with another child because that child lives in "the ghetto" or is poor. And it's not just a "safety" issue, so let's not all pretend like it is.

Anonymous wrote:Congrats! You're an elitist now. You've really made it!

Love it!

Congrats! You're an elitist now. You've really made it!

I did grow up with all the detritus PP describes and I will do anything and everything in my power to shield my children from similar experiences. For example, no Kool-Aid powder smeared on the hands for breakfast, visibly bruised and burned hands or talk of the nearby prison being on lockdown. None of it.

I don't deal with anyone from public housing on a regular basis either. No apology from me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's called diversity. Just sayin' I know I know this concept is probably way over the head of those who grew up in those nice Midwestern areas?! I'm sure there are no drug dealers/users in the Midwest Your children will one day have to deal with others from...wait for it...shudder PUBLIC. HOUSING.

So, pp, when your dc have playdates with these kids from the projects, who hosts?

I grew up in the bronx. So "playdates" at the projects don't strike fear in my heart. I'm sorry you're so sheltered.

Most people who grew up with drunken fights, the neighbor's kids screaming, friends being dragged off by CPS etc etc. WANT to shelter their children from those experiences - just like the people who have never experienced them-.
You don't. Well, either you overrate being 'streetsmart', especially for the 10 yr olds we're talking about here, or you are just throwing 'the bronx' at us, hoping that noone calls your BS - the Bronx has very affluent areas, too.

Anonymous wrote:There's plenty of section 8 housing in Arlington - and food stamps, pedophiles, drugs, low lifes etc. etc. Even so, it is a nice place to live in pockets - as is Alexandria. You can get away from the section 8 and still live in Alexandria......problem is, you may not be able to afford it - which may be the reason to move, and in that case, I do not blame you. There is not one school in Arlington that doesn't have some of the elements you are trying to get away from. And, when it comes down to it - there are probably more single parent, less educated middle and lower middle class kids for your kids to pal around with. Just sayin.....be careful what you wish for.

Actually there is no public housing in Arlington. There is a rent assistance program with units all over from Rosslyn along the whole metro line, and along Columbia Pike BUT the wait list for this was 5 years long! And it's now closed.

Alexandria I believe does have public housing in addition to rent assistance.

As far as the schools, there are actually schools in Arlington with less than a dozen 'economically disadvantaged' kids. I don't know what you mean by 'be careful what you wish for' in that regard, I think the PPs are complaining that even the most expensive neighborhoods' schools in Alexandria are not great- and that is frustrating.

PP is right that forced desegregation busing in Arlington was abandoned many years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's plenty of section 8 housing in Arlington - and food stamps, pedophiles, drugs, low lifes etc. etc. Even so, it is a nice place to live in pockets - as is Alexandria. You can get away from the section 8 and still live in Alexandria......problem is, you may not be able to afford it - which may be the reason to move, and in that case, I do not blame you. There is not one school in Arlington that doesn't have some of the elements you are trying to get away from. And, when it comes down to it - there are probably more single parent, less educated middle and lower middle class kids for your kids to pal around with. Just sayin.....be careful what you wish for.

There are in fact several schools in Arlington without these elements. More importantly, even in the schools where these elements exist, they don't dominate the culture of the school the way they do in Alexandria for some reason. The achievement numbers and parental satisfication levels support this.

Sure but Alexandria is smaller than Arlington and has a larger mass of low income residents and actually has full fledged areas of public housing - not just people receiving Section 8 vouchers to live in market rate housing but whole communities and developments that are old, ugly public housing. They are oddly interspersed throughtout the City and you can't miss them. If you drive down Duke St. one of them sits right in front of a really nice townhouse development for example.

There is no "North Arlington" in Alexandria City. Not even in Old Town. Well there is South Old Town but is it so small that it could never rival North Arlington. Also, the City buses kids to other schools which I am not aware that Arlington does.

No, Alexandria City is far different from Arlington. We have 2 middle schools and one high school. In Arlington, you can effectivley choose to escape low income neighbors by moving to North Arlington.