Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

Hmmm... I am not a student of history, but I don't know that we should be discussing what life is like for people who are essentially peasants, with child rearing practices of the middle and upper middle class today.

People who have to work in the fields, have to work in the fields. They certainly have older girls and elderly grannies who watch the babies, and they let the toddlers run wild and hope they don't fall down the well or get eaten by dingos. I don't think that is the ideal child rearing situation for my children though.

You say, PP, that there has never been a time in history (outside of that brief post war period) that women have been expected to stay home ALONE with their children. And that may well be true. But the situations you describe (peasants working on the family farm) also do not involve warehousing infants into group care situations, either. They were cared for at home by their parents and extended family members, because their parents were working on the family farm.

It's only been since the invention of factories, and office jobs, that many many adults leave the home and go out to work some 9-5 jobs at a far distance from their homes, that the concept of "daycare" needed to be established. I believe it started when women needed to work in the factories, not when men did -- because up till then, caring for infants and toddlers was still seen as women's work (probably because formula hadn't been invented yet).

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Listen out of work lawyer mommy (yeah, it's clear it's you)....do you have any idea what a middle class family deals with in this area? ANY IDEA? How wonderful for you that your husband can work and support you and your family. WONDERFUL. That is not a reality for my family. We are BOTH LAWYERS...who are very underemployed and not willing to make compromises that we think will hurt our families....like moving outside the beltway and taking on a two hour commute just so one of us can be home. If your husband actually sees your children at night, I would be really shocked. He must be making a TON of money for you guys to live close enough for that to happen. So please, STFU already.

And warehousing? Really? My daycare is hardly a warehouse. Did you ever use daycare? Must have been a really shitty one for you to be so hung up about it.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, they are in preschool a few mornings a week, not for 45 to 55 hours per week of daycare.

Anonymous wrote:As for the canard that women have always worked, so daycare is natural - a child being cared for by a family member is not comparable to care for multiple infants in an institutional setting. The latter is a very new invention.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, they are in preschool a few mornings a week, not for 45 to 55 hours per week of daycare.

Anonymous wrote:Pp, you are obviously thoughtful and I believe we have faced many of the same challenges. By lifestyle changes, I mean things like eliminating the need for private school by moving. That adds up to about $70k per year for my two kids. In any event, I understand and respect your choices. But, I do think that I can do a better job at teaching my preschool aged kids given my education level and language ability. I doubt my former nanny from when my daughter was an infant would contradict that, as English was her second language and much less strong than her first. This is why many parents get educated caregivers for their kids. This does not apply to infants. You may change your mind about who best can care for your child once he or she is older, and I trust you will decide what is best at that point. You may not. Like you said, many kids succeed who have others care for them. All I am saying is that if you wanted to take care of your kid instead of working, you could probably do it quite well with some practice and effort. Again, I just want to stop hearing from people that they are not the right person for the job when they are obviously smart, capable and engaged parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

Do you even hear yourself? I wonder how often your kids see their father....

I could quit my job, but that would mean DH would have to get a MUCH MUCH higher paying job essentially work double the hours he works now. We thought about it, and it is not what is best for our kids AT ALL. And you are in denial if you think you're as good as a woman who has helped care for hundreds of babies. You aren't. Your child will be no more special than the thousands of children of professional families in this area, I can guarantee it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, yes, we downsized a lot. We rent a smaller place now in a good school district. Home ownership in this area required that I work at the law firm, and so we decided to get out of it. That was our choice. I encourage others to be happy with their choices. All I am saying is shut up with the "I really could not take care pf children" crap. It really is a very small point I am making. Sorry it is getting everyone so agitated--probably because working moms say this shit all the time.

No, it's because you are verbose and obnoxious. I can't believe anyone puts up with your ranting more than a few minutes in real life.