Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, that is the problem.
You think young women are pregnancy accidents waiting to happen
In todays time, the men are involved in child care and do their share of picking up the kids, taking sick days to take care of the kids. Men give their kids breakfeast and children become more self sufficient and do their homework on their own.
There are mothers in the work place that travel

My impression is that hiring you would be a problem. You might not adjust so easily to changes

Sigh. How old are you, PP?

Ha ha ha, men are involved?? Ha ha ha, that's a good one.

All the dads I know who do child care, handle sick days, pick up kids from school, etc., are self-employed. They basically set their own hours, so have the flexibility to work at home when the kids are sick, shuttle them back and forth to school when needed. But men in full-time career jobs that I know DO NOT take time off from work to care for sick kids. A paid sitter does that, or a grandmother, or the MOM does it, in most cases.

I suspect that you are in your 30s, PP, and that you don't want any older women in your workplace. It would be a problem to have someone more experienced, more knowledgeable, more savvy about the world, with more perspective on working, with a broader view than you have, and probably, once brought up to speed, with better skills than you, PP.

It's you, PP, who can't adjust to changes. You are so short-sighted, you can't see how rigid you are. But as you mature, you may change. And then you'll be like the poster you disdain.

What? Not the poster you are quoting but my husband is definitely not self-employed and still actually wants to be a dad and participate in our kids' lives. Not everyone works an 80 hour inflexible job. He does most sick days and doctor appointments, pick up and drop off, and he does the vast majority of cooking. He is the volunteer in preschool etc. I know a lot of families in this situation. We certainly don't feel like an exception. We both work, and we both had the kids together, so we made decisions very early on so that we could both parent them.

My oldest daughter prefers dad when she's sick, so he has spent a night up with her. My dad was the exact opposite of this and our relationship suffered because of it. I understand not everyone has this choice but we've worked really, really hard to have this set up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to admit that no one cares if you stayed home b/c you had a sick child or you cared for your now dead father. It's not relevant to the work force. Employers want to see people with updated skills who are task-oriented.

Furthermore, there are plenty of women who work and still care for a SN child and ailing parents. I am one of them. While it's not easy, I've learned how to keep things in perspective. I do know that w/o my salary, my children would not be in private school, which is especially important for my son.

So, sadly, while I understand the pressure of family issues, employers who NEED to run an efficient office don't care. fact of life
quote]

Here's another fact of life. Forward-thinking employers recognize the need for work/life balance, and the ones that want to attract the most experienced applicants have policies that provide flexiliby to working parents. The recession makes these policies less necessary to the recruitment process, but that is temporary. The pendulum will swing again.

I returned to the work force out of necessity after a few years off, and am kicking ass. Once I proved my worth (took about a year), I walked into my boss's office and said, 'OK, now you see what I can do. Want to keep me?" I now have flex hours so that I don't have to choose between my child's needs and my boss's. Win-win all around.

Thank you for this post (2nd poster quoted here). It's amazing the assumptions that are being made here on DCUM about SAHMs. Of course the reality of the current economy has made things much more difficult for anyone looking for a job. Asking for flexibility is not possible in many cases simply because there is a huge pool of applicants for most jobs.

It's good to know that once you've shown yourself worthy, you can ask for and get flexibility. That shows employers are waking up to the reality that jobs have to be made flexible for all workers.

Networking is the key to finding a job, OP. If you can volunteer in your field, you will impress someone who will recommend you to someone who is looking for a highly skilled and competent person. Or perhaps, like a PP, you will impress someone who has a job to fill, and hires you.

Anonymous wrote:in these?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14563943@N06/1482883648/

Anonymous wrote:I have grown daughters, both will be going away next fall to college. I am trying to get back into medical sales after being out for 10 years, and it is a little scary, but you can't lose your selling skills once you have them. I campaigned in 2010 and those skills come back just like riding a bike. Try to stay positive. Think about all of the benefits a hiring manager has with an older woman who has grown children, no more taking sick days every week during the fall and winter to take care of kids. She can work long hours and not have to worry about how to pick her children up at day care before they start charging $1 / minute, how to get those children fed and get homework finished, no concern about maternity leave, and no more concern about overnight travel. If they hire a younger woman she has much more of a chance of getting pregnant and eventually quitting her job than the older moms do. I am thrilled at the thought of returning back to work, and I plan to invest just as much of myself in my job as I did before. Now, I just have to find a hiring manager to take a chance on me.

You are nasty. Wait until you are in your 40s. Remember the Golden Rule? One day, you'll regret your behavior, I hope. Unless you never grow up.

Anonymous wrote:PP, that is the problem.
You think young women are pregnancy accidents waiting to happen
In todays time, the men are involved in child care and do their share of picking up the kids, taking sick days to take care of the kids. Men give their kids breakfeast and children become more self sufficient and do their homework on their own.
There are mothers in the work place that travel

My impression is that hiring you would be a problem. You might not adjust so easily to changes

Sigh. How old are you, PP?

Ha ha ha, men are involved?? Ha ha ha, that's a good one.

All the dads I know who do child care, handle sick days, pick up kids from school, etc., are self-employed. They basically set their own hours, so have the flexibility to work at home when the kids are sick, shuttle them back and forth to school when needed. But men in full-time career jobs that I know DO NOT take time off from work to care for sick kids. A paid sitter does that, or a grandmother, or the MOM does it, in most cases.

I suspect that you are in your 30s, PP, and that you don't want any older women in your workplace. It would be a problem to have someone more experienced, more knowledgeable, more savvy about the world, with more perspective on working, with a broader view than you have, and probably, once brought up to speed, with better skills than you, PP.

It's you, PP, who can't adjust to changes. You are so short-sighted, you can't see how rigid you are. But as you mature, you may change. And then you'll be like the poster you disdain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:21

not sure what you mean, but
yes, that would be best, hoping of course it is not a criminal record or something similar (?!)

I don't want to hire someone conflicted about working in a full time career job.

This attitude is so male and so "inside the box" as far as men and women, child rearing, and work are concerned. Other countries, particularly Scandinavian countries, are far more advanced in this area than is the U.S., which is stuck back in the 1920s, post-industrial revolution era when the workplace and home were separated, and women stayed at home with their babies and children.

That the U.S. workplace has not evolved does not mean that we should accept this situation. Women and men should demand flexible schedules to accommodate child rearing. Where is the next generation going to come from? How are we going to replace the retired workers if we don't accommodate child rearing?

Maintaining the status quo hurts everyone, SAHM, WOHM, dads as well. Everyone deserves better choices.

Working in a "full-time career job" should not require 80 hour workweeks. Some people want to work those hours, and others don't. Why not offer flexibility? Simply because it has not been done in recent memory does not mean it's the best choice, or the most cost-effective.

I used to work part time, and I was far more productive than most of my colleagues who worked 70 hour weeks. I'm very efficient and use my time productively. Per hour of work, I delivered far more for my employer's money than did my colleagues.

Changing a mindset takes generations, but it's possible. What's wrong is accepting that the way things are is the way they ought to be. Take it or shove it, is a pretty sad attitude, and a sign of a limited imagination. I wouldn't want to work for you, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what is my "outlook" (I'm a SAHM)? And to the PP, what is your "outlook" that is so different?

Serious generalizing and stereotyping going on.

I don't assume if the kids are sick that it's my job that suffers. I don't assume anything in our family life that puts my job second to my husband's. How many SAHMs who are going back to work have that outlook?

I feel really sorry for your kids. You must be one of the moms mentioned in the other thread about parents who don't like their kids and don't spend any time with them.

If your career is so important, why did you have kids at all? Who does take care of them when they are sick? Or are you the type of mom who sends your kids to school if they have a fever below 101 degrees? I stay home when my kids are sick, and you (or your DH) should too.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a WOHM who doesn't think a SAHM is a good choice for my workplace. I admit it. Our outlooks are just too different.

Your prejudice is sad and limiting -- both to you, and to the SAHMs that you exclude from your hiring process. Do you exclude black people? The disabled? People with bad complexions? Non-native English speakers? People from the Middle East? Croatians? Men from India who are under 5'7" tall? Lesbians who are now dating men? These people may not be "a good choice" for your workplace, but to exclude them is discrimination, as is excluding SAHMs. Shame on you.

Anonymous wrote:I (like many others I assume) didn't post here to be put in my place or for a reality check. I posted here for support and advice. I'm well aware of the fact that 4 years of experience isn't much, but it is what it is. I can't change any of that now. After college I pursued a different career path for 4 years, then worked as a paralegal for 4 years, then had my first child and I've been a SAHM ever since. I'm now 40 and want to go back to work. It doesn't have to be in the paralegal field, and to be honest I'd much rather it were in the field I've done 8 years of volunteer work in (advocacy). I was hoping my education and prior experience would be enough to at least get me an entry-level paralegal position. But I'm starting to think maybe that was unrealistic. Maybe I'll just pursue my passion and try to find a job that will actually pay me for my advocacy efforts.
To all those out there like me, don't let the naysayers get you down. You know how valuable you are, and someday an employer will, too.

I wish you luck! Thank you for volunteering your time, I hope it translates into a job for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, one returning to the workforce shoudl expect a lower salary. Women who took any time at all out will on average return to the workforce at 81% of their previous salary and for 3+ years out, the figure is 64% of their previous salary (Hewlett et al., Harvard Business Review, 2005). That's an average across all fields. In some fields, it's hard to break back in at all (In the sciences, skills that are 5 years out of date are almost worthless).

I second the volunteer suggestion, but people are correct that the PTA isn't the way to go. There are TONS of non-profits in this area, many of who are dying for people with marketing, IT, legal, or development skills. If you volunteer to work for them for free, they won't say no. Once you get a few projects completed, you resume will look better, and you'll have a few contacts.

I don't know if I'm an exception to that rule, but I returned at my exact same salary after 5 years at home. However, this was not adjusted for cost of living increases, so it really was effectively like a lower salary. Got a big bump up after one year, though.

Statistically, you are an exception. But of course stats describe a population and there are people who take time off and don't miss a beat, or return very quickly. I imagine timing has something to do with it, and your field. That's great though, and inspiring. I'm sure some of us would appreciate any tips if you have any.

Anonymous wrote:In general, one returning to the workforce shoudl expect a lower salary. Women who took any time at all out will on average return to the workforce at 81% of their previous salary and for 3+ years out, the figure is 64% of their previous salary (Hewlett et al., Harvard Business Review, 2005). That's an average across all fields. In some fields, it's hard to break back in at all (In the sciences, skills that are 5 years out of date are almost worthless).

I second the volunteer suggestion, but people are correct that the PTA isn't the way to go. There are TONS of non-profits in this area, many of who are dying for people with marketing, IT, legal, or development skills. If you volunteer to work for them for free, they won't say no. Once you get a few projects completed, you resume will look better, and you'll have a few contacts.

I don't know if I'm an exception to that rule, but I returned at my exact same salary after 5 years at home. However, this was not adjusted for cost of living increases, so it really was effectively like a lower salary. Got a big bump up after one year, though.

Anonymous wrote:"I'm sure you have gained good skills that can translate in both the paralegal field and advocacy."

Such as?

What do you mean? Have you never done a resume before? She just needs to describe what she has done preferably mirroring language in the job description. Call a career coach if you want more info - it's resume 101.

"I'm sure you have gained good skills that can translate in both the paralegal field and advocacy."

Such as?

Anonymous wrote:I (like many others I assume) didn't post here to be put in my place or for a reality check. I posted here for support and advice. I'm well aware of the fact that 4 years of experience isn't much, but it is what it is. I can't change any of that now. After college I pursued a different career path for 4 years, then worked as a paralegal for 4 years, then had my first child and I've been a SAHM ever since. I'm now 40 and want to go back to work. It doesn't have to be in the paralegal field, and to be honest I'd much rather it were in the field I've done 8 years of volunteer work in (advocacy). I was hoping my education and prior experience would be enough to at least get me an entry-level paralegal position. But I'm starting to think maybe that was unrealistic. Maybe I'll just pursue my passion and try to find a job that will actually pay me for my advocacy efforts.
To all those out there like me, don't let the naysayers get you down. You know how valuable you are, and someday an employer will, too.

I would just try to capitalize on your total work experience rather than focusing on the four or 8 years. Make your volunteer work sound like a job (don't lie of course, but I mean on your resume list the things you did, accomplished, etc. as they relate to the jobs you are applying for). I'm sure you have gained good skills that can translate in both the paralegal field and advocacy.

I think part of the reason people are being harsh is that 6 weeks is not that long. For many of us in the workforce, we have seen spouses, friends, colleagues, and maybe even ourselves go through layoffs and even with an up to date resume, take longer than 6 weeks in some cases. We had 15% of my company cut in 2010 and it was devastating, even though I didn't lose my job, to go through that and watch talented, good friends and colleagues struggle. So you just need to be patient and realistic.

I (like many others I assume) didn't post here to be put in my place or for a reality check. I posted here for support and advice. I'm well aware of the fact that 4 years of experience isn't much, but it is what it is. I can't change any of that now. After college I pursued a different career path for 4 years, then worked as a paralegal for 4 years, then had my first child and I've been a SAHM ever since. I'm now 40 and want to go back to work. It doesn't have to be in the paralegal field, and to be honest I'd much rather it were in the field I've done 8 years of volunteer work in (advocacy). I was hoping my education and prior experience would be enough to at least get me an entry-level paralegal position. But I'm starting to think maybe that was unrealistic. Maybe I'll just pursue my passion and try to find a job that will actually pay me for my advocacy efforts.
To all those out there like me, don't let the naysayers get you down. You know how valuable you are, and someday an employer will, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG, your thinking is so antiquated!
Now a days, working women have husbands who also shoulder the domestic duties. My DH does as much (and sometimes more) than I do. Additionally, MANY women stay in the work force, especially educated ones with earning potential.

Grandma, this is 2011, not 1981. Wake up.

Wow! How catty can people be? I really didn't think the woman you called "Grandma" was trying to be anything but helpful. How did her post push such a hot button?

Exactly, I'm a new poster here, and the person calling "Grandma" is rude and immature. Perhaps she's having trouble in her career (I bet she is) and needs to lash out. To the poster she's referring to - just ignore her.
Your advice was just fine.

New poster, and I agree that "grandma" calling poster was rude, but I disagree that the woman with grown daughters you are offending gave good advice. Saying young women are a risk to higher because they might quit when they get pregnant is not only incredibly offensive, it is downright wrong. There are no stats to back that up. There are more women working than staying home, and 80% of the ones who stay home do so at least in part because they simply can't afford childcare. That is a FACT. So "career" or professional women are not quitting when they get knocked up and statements like that deserve to be corrected. Perhaps more politely corrected, but corrected nonetheless. It is antiquated thinking.