Anonymous
04/16/2011 15:43
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Well, according to FCPS, all students need to show proof of residency. If that is all that is required by FCPS, then what are these students doing wrong? Even if one does not agree with students from abroad temporarily being allowed to study here or at TJ, can anyone cite what percentage of students actually fall into this category? Is it 10%? 25%? 5%?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What proof do you have that "they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally"? Students in TJ have to had come from an 8th grade school in this area. When a student enters middle school here, the middle school is supposed to ask for supporting papers that they live here legally. The person does not have to be a citizen of this country to be living here legally. If you look at the current profile of TJ, it states that in the 2009-2010 school year 1770 students at the school were English Proficient. 13 were not. It seems to me that speaking English is not a big problem in the school.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
well - it works both ways, we moved here from atlanta precisely because of the more ambitious educational standards - our kids won't have a choice about competing with the kids from seoul or beijing or bombay - global service industries and our own globally-attractive universities compete for the same students/have the same student pool - they might as well get into that mode now - rather than being behind the curve when they are 25 and it's too late.
the only thing I disagree with is that colleges admit foreign students as foreign students. They have to take a test of English as a foreign language and they pay tuition. If the foreign nationals getting into TJ were required to do the same, I'd have no problem with it. Right now they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally.
This has been discussed here and elsewhere several times - the FCPS only requires an alleged parent or legal guardian [they don't check the status] to submit receipts etc. showing they live in one of the counties served by TJ.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 12:49
Subject: TJ Admissions
I believe the Supreme Court ruled on this so FCPS and all other school counties are following the law.
The students are given two writing prompts and they need to write the two essays after they finish their exam. So this can be on any topic (changes every year), they need to take a stand and support it. This is different from the stuff they submit with their application which "adults" can tinker with.
The students are given two writing prompts and they need to write the two essays after they finish their exam. So this can be on any topic (changes every year), they need to take a stand and support it. This is different from the stuff they submit with their application which "adults" can tinker with.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 12:32
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:What proof do you have that "they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally"? Students in TJ have to had come from an 8th grade school in this area. When a student enters middle school here, the middle school is supposed to ask for supporting papers that they live here legally. The person does not have to be a citizen of this country to be living here legally. If you look at the current profile of TJ, it states that in the 2009-2010 school year 1770 students at the school were English Proficient. 13 were not. It seems to me that speaking English is not a big problem in the school.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
well - it works both ways, we moved here from atlanta precisely because of the more ambitious educational standards - our kids won't have a choice about competing with the kids from seoul or beijing or bombay - global service industries and our own globally-attractive universities compete for the same students/have the same student pool - they might as well get into that mode now - rather than being behind the curve when they are 25 and it's too late.
the only thing I disagree with is that colleges admit foreign students as foreign students. They have to take a test of English as a foreign language and they pay tuition. If the foreign nationals getting into TJ were required to do the same, I'd have no problem with it. Right now they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally.
This has been discussed here and elsewhere several times - the FCPS only requires an alleged parent or legal guardian [they don't check the status] to submit receipts etc. showing they live in one of the counties served by TJ.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 12:19
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
What proof do you have that "they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally"? Students in TJ have to had come from an 8th grade school in this area. When a student enters middle school here, the middle school is supposed to ask for supporting papers that they live here legally. The person does not have to be a citizen of this country to be living here legally. If you look at the current profile of TJ, it states that in the 2009-2010 school year 1770 students at the school were English Proficient. 13 were not. It seems to me that speaking English is not a big problem in the school.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
well - it works both ways, we moved here from atlanta precisely because of the more ambitious educational standards - our kids won't have a choice about competing with the kids from seoul or beijing or bombay - global service industries and our own globally-attractive universities compete for the same students/have the same student pool - they might as well get into that mode now - rather than being behind the curve when they are 25 and it's too late.
the only thing I disagree with is that colleges admit foreign students as foreign students. They have to take a test of English as a foreign language and they pay tuition. If the foreign nationals getting into TJ were required to do the same, I'd have no problem with it. Right now they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 12:08
Subject: TJ Admissions
there haas been conflicting information on this and the other TJ thread about these essays. Some say the essays are done in the testing room so can't be tinkered with by any adults. Then I read the applicant gets three weeks to complete the Student Information Sheet, which is essentially short essays and very important, so it could be reviewed by professionals. So which is it?
Just read further up this thread or go to the TJ Admissions site. It is both. 2 Essays during Entrance Exam (25%) and SIS short questions (3 wks, 20%). Students can get tutored to learn what reviewers are looking for in the essays, but they have to write it alone. Anybody can write the SIS for them. The reviewers can assess both of these (45%) as subjectively as they want and that determines who gets in and who does not, since there is not enough variation in the semifinalists' quantitative scores and teacher recs (55%)to make much differenciation.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 10:24
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have more respect for the process now as it seems to weed-out the "packaged" type applicants who worked so hard beefing up their resumes just to look good to the TJ admissions people.
If all the 480 applicants that have been selected have written their student information sheet all by themselves for the so called self-reflection, kudos to them. But the truth is they have been trained to say things that an admissions committee member likes. Tiger moms will get the training for these "packaged" type of applicants because they know their target, would figure out all aspects of what works. It is probably not s surprise to anyone that so many training places exist that will train, review the student authored information sheets. This system helps the followers, not leaders. In otherwords, it is stereotyping naturally passionate people that didn't care to beef up the some parts of their skills against the others. If you have followed the recent articles about TJ, their graduates have explicitly admitted that they didn't care about science and math before admission or after graduation. Isn't this detrimental to TJ's mission? Isn't it better to weigh some one that has already demonstrated capabilities and interest rather than some one that is writing outright lies on their data sheet?
there haas been conflicting information on this and the other TJ thread about these essays. Some say the essays are done in the testing room so can't be tinkered with by any adults. Then I read the applicant gets three weeks to complete the Student Information Sheet, which is essentially short essays and very important, so it could be reviewed by professionals. So which is it?
Anonymous
04/16/2011 10:17
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have more respect for the process now as it seems to weed-out the "packaged" type applicants who worked so hard beefing up their resumes just to look good to the TJ admissions people.
If all the 480 applicants that have been selected have written their student information sheet all by themselves for the so called self-reflection, kudos to them. But the truth is they have been trained to say things that an admissions committee member likes. Tiger moms will get the training for these "packaged" type of applicants because they know their target, would figure out all aspects of what works. It is probably not s surprise to anyone that so many training places exist that will train, review the student authored information sheets. This system helps the followers, not leaders. In otherwords, it is stereotyping naturally passionate people that didn't care to beef up the some parts of their skills against the others. If you have followed the recent articles about TJ, their graduates have explicitly admitted that they didn't care about science and math before admission or after graduation. Isn't this detrimental to TJ's mission? Isn't it better to weigh some one that has already demonstrated capabilities and interest rather than some one that is writing outright lies on their data sheet?
guess what - ask how many harvard / yale / princeton science majors are doing grad work in fundamental science? how many are now in hedge funds, consulting, or investment banking, or from an older 1/2 generation in medicine and law? you'll find that in the quantitative sciences excelling in school is just a way to distinguish yourself enough to "make the grade" - whether is for TJ admission or even after you get into the ivys. that's just part of the college game - especially if you are not from a majority culture in america where there are opportunities to excell in your own arts/humanities areas that the colleges would recognize - e.g. the top winner of the annual hebrew/torah national competition gets into harvard - it's a reserved slot from the harvard near eastern studies department - but is there an annual korean literature competition - and does the harvard east asian studies department have a reserved slot for that student - no - so the korean kid who could be the best literateur has to play the science game --- that's just the way it is.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 10:09
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:I have more respect for the process now as it seems to weed-out the "packaged" type applicants who worked so hard beefing up their resumes just to look good to the TJ admissions people.
If all the 480 applicants that have been selected have written their student information sheet all by themselves for the so called self-reflection, kudos to them. But the truth is they have been trained to say things that an admissions committee member likes. Tiger moms will get the training for these "packaged" type of applicants because they know their target, would figure out all aspects of what works. It is probably not s surprise to anyone that so many training places exist that will train, review the student authored information sheets. This system helps the followers, not leaders. In otherwords, it is stereotyping naturally passionate people that didn't care to beef up the some parts of their skills against the others. If you have followed the recent articles about TJ, their graduates have explicitly admitted that they didn't care about science and math before admission or after graduation. Isn't this detrimental to TJ's mission? Isn't it better to weigh some one that has already demonstrated capabilities and interest rather than some one that is writing outright lies on their data sheet?
Anonymous
04/16/2011 09:52
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
well - it works both ways, we moved here from atlanta precisely because of the more ambitious educational standards - our kids won't have a choice about competing with the kids from seoul or beijing or bombay - global service industries and our own globally-attractive universities compete for the same students/have the same student pool - they might as well get into that mode now - rather than being behind the curve when they are 25 and it's too late.
the only thing I disagree with is that colleges admit foreign students as foreign students. They have to take a test of English as a foreign language and they pay tuition. If the foreign nationals getting into TJ were required to do the same, I'd have no problem with it. Right now they do not check any of the applicants papers to see if they are here legally.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 09:19
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
well - it works both ways, we moved here from atlanta precisely because of the more ambitious educational standards - our kids won't have a choice about competing with the kids from seoul or beijing or bombay - global service industries and our own globally-attractive universities compete for the same students/have the same student pool - they might as well get into that mode now - rather than being behind the curve when they are 25 and it's too late.
Anonymous
04/16/2011 09:17
Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
The process at TJ is clearly out of hand now, and it epitomizes what people hate about Northern Virginia. I'm glad my DH's job gives him options in other places and we'll be moving soon to a place that isn't so cut-throat and compulsively competitive. If we wanted to live in Seoul, we'd move to South Korea.
Anonymous
04/15/2011 16:40
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:The admissions process is handled by FCPS. They set the criteria for admissions -- TJ does not select the students.
As of the essays, I believe there is more weight given to the essays the students write on test day. There is no doubt those essays are written by the students as they do it right after the test before they are released from the classroom. The gifted teacher at our school believes those essays usually dooms the students chances (most of the kids from our school don't write well enough to satisfy the readers). They don't look at these essays until after the student is selected as a semi-finalist.
well that's the most important time isn't it?
It's kinda ironic that so many applicants for a science, technology, math and engineering school are doomed by their written work.
It's also probably very tough for most of them to express what they want to do with their life without their parents telling them what to say!
I have more respect for the process now as it seems to weed-out the "packaged" type applicants who worked so hard beefing up their resumes just to look good to the TJ admissions people.
Anonymous
04/15/2011 16:20
Subject: TJ Admissions
The admissions process is handled by FCPS. They set the criteria for admissions -- TJ does not select the students.
As of the essays, I believe there is more weight given to the essays the students write on test day. There is no doubt those essays are written by the students as they do it right after the test before they are released from the classroom. The gifted teacher at our school believes those essays usually dooms the students chances (most of the kids from our school don't write well enough to satisfy the readers). They don't look at these essays until after the student is selected as a semi-finalist.
As of the essays, I believe there is more weight given to the essays the students write on test day. There is no doubt those essays are written by the students as they do it right after the test before they are released from the classroom. The gifted teacher at our school believes those essays usually dooms the students chances (most of the kids from our school don't write well enough to satisfy the readers). They don't look at these essays until after the student is selected as a semi-finalist.
Anonymous
04/15/2011 10:58
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: <snip>
In other words, not only good at math/science but also good at verbal/humanities/writing ability and still he was not accepted.
I wonder who would want to packge their kid strating at age by, for example, making them take the SAT at 11. What the heck for?
And writing a 35 page research paper (with endnotes and annottions)? I am convinced more than ever these kids can have TJ.
If TJ is for these types of kids they can have it.
Evidently TJ isn't for those types of kids since he didn't get in. 8)
TJ changed the student information sheet that applicants complete a couple of years ago. It used to be that applicants just listed various activities and achievements, but now the applicants answer 8 short essay questions such as "What is your best subject in school and why?" and "What one thing about yourself do you believe would make the biggest contribution to the community of learners at TJHSST?" This is the opportunity to brag about your accomplishments. but you have to figure out a way to fit that in while answering these questions. TJ is looking for something more than a laundry list of accomplishments - they also want a bit of self-reflection and that can be difficult for anyone, and especially for a child who's only 13. You can see the student information sheet here - http://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/admissions/docs/studinfo2015-final.pdf
Maybe there's been a bit of a backlash against these highly packaged applicants and now more weight is being placed on "self-reflection" in the essays. That probably screwed some of the applicants for this year, but word will now get out and - mark my words - next year you will see all kinds of self-reflection on the essays from these kids! That's the one area their tiger moms may have overlooked this time, but not next time.
If that's the case, it's BS that's mostly intended to make the admissions officers feel better. Whether or not the applicants have perfected the art of false modesty, TJ is still becoming a public relations disaster.
Anonymous
04/15/2011 08:38
Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: <snip>
In other words, not only good at math/science but also good at verbal/humanities/writing ability and still he was not accepted.
I wonder who would want to packge their kid strating at age by, for example, making them take the SAT at 11. What the heck for?
And writing a 35 page research paper (with endnotes and annottions)? I am convinced more than ever these kids can have TJ.
If TJ is for these types of kids they can have it.
Evidently TJ isn't for those types of kids since he didn't get in. 8)
TJ changed the student information sheet that applicants complete a couple of years ago. It used to be that applicants just listed various activities and achievements, but now the applicants answer 8 short essay questions such as "What is your best subject in school and why?" and "What one thing about yourself do you believe would make the biggest contribution to the community of learners at TJHSST?" This is the opportunity to brag about your accomplishments. but you have to figure out a way to fit that in while answering these questions. TJ is looking for something more than a laundry list of accomplishments - they also want a bit of self-reflection and that can be difficult for anyone, and especially for a child who's only 13. You can see the student information sheet here - http://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/admissions/docs/studinfo2015-final.pdf
Maybe there's been a bit of a backlash against these highly packaged applicants and now more weight is being placed on "self-reflection" in the essays. That probably screwed some of the applicants for this year, but word will now get out and - mark my words - next year you will see all kinds of self-reflection on the essays from these kids! That's the one area their tiger moms may have overlooked this time, but not next time.