Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should hire a teenager to do their volunteer commitments if they don’t want to. I know a bunch of teenagers that would jump on timing a meet for babysitter type pay.

But really, it’s sad that people are so disengaged. We saw it in other sports too, we were always coaching rec teams.

If parents are willing to pay the fine instead of volunteering, why can't the teams do this? My kids have never done swim team and never will but if the pool was willing to pay them $15-20 an hour to work the snack bar or time the races, they would gladly do it.

The pools don’t run swim teams or meets. Volunteers do. Further, there is no money in summer swim team budgets to pay volunteers. A single meet requires 18 timers, several officials, multiple marshals, and an entire data/tables staff. At $20/hour pp, the cost would be in the thousands per meet.
Summer swim is volunteer-run. If you want to participate, you help. If you absolutely can’t, then sure, a family could choose to pay someone to volunteer on its behalf. But to suggest a pool or team could simply pay people for these roles is extremely unrealistic.

The first person is asking a fair question, and the second response actually highlights why the model needs to change.
If a single meet requires dozens of critical roles and cannot function without a huge unpaid labor force, then parents are not "volunteering" in the casual sense, they are staffing the operation. That is real labor.

The idea that there is "no money" is also a choice, not a law of nature. Budgets can be adjusted. Fees can be structured with volunteer credits, opt-out fees, sponsorships, paid core staff, or hybrid models where some roles are compensated and others remain volunteer. Many youth activities already do exactly that.

What has changed is family life. In many households, both parents work, schedules are packed, and free time is limited. Time has become more valuable than it was for prior generations. Paying a fee instead of giving hours is a rational tradeoff for many families.

And let's be honest, timing races, snack bars, data entry, marshaling kids, and meet logistics are operational jobs. Pretending those jobs must only be done for free because "that's how summer swim works" is outdated thinking.
If the program is valuable, then labor should be valued too.

I think most people understand that and that's why the fees to swim are relatively low. If people think money is tight now, they won't be able to afford swimming fees when all the operational labor expenses are included. In my experience swim clubs are upfront about the expectations of parents to make it happen. Why are people agreeing then reneging on their obligation? Stop signing up if making it happen isn't possible for your busy schedule. Cut the freeloading kids if their parents don't step up.

DP. It's terrible to punish kids for the acts of their parents. That mentality flies in the face of what youth sports is supposed to be about. Not every family can contribute in the same way. Some can contribute money but not time, some time but not money, some have difficulty contributing in either way. Why is swim so special, so differently situated, that it requires parents to literally run the meets when nearly every other sport has managed to handle games/meets/tournaments? It's really not. And even if it's true that "this is the way it's always been," it doesn't mean it needs to stay that way for all eternity. There is a documented problem occurring: fewer parents are willing or able to volunteer for various reasons. So why not figure out a better way?

What is youth sports supposed to be about? It's only recently that it's exploded into this money making pay to play machine. In my parents' time, "youth sports" was kids getting their own bat and glove and heading down to the local park to play baseball. They made up their own rules and had to abide by them. There were no parents, umps or anything like that. Same for basketball. Their parents weren't wasting weekends timing youth swim meets. The concept of "youth sports" isn't what you seem to think it is.

I'm 50. I swam in summer swim and played rec basketball and rec soccer. How old are you?

I said “my parents”. Ask your parents about their “youth sports”. It doesn’t look remotely like it does now. Back then kids who never played sports could join their high school team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should hire a teenager to do their volunteer commitments if they don’t want to. I know a bunch of teenagers that would jump on timing a meet for babysitter type pay.

But really, it’s sad that people are so disengaged. We saw it in other sports too, we were always coaching rec teams.

If parents are willing to pay the fine instead of volunteering, why can't the teams do this? My kids have never done swim team and never will but if the pool was willing to pay them $15-20 an hour to work the snack bar or time the races, they would gladly do it.

The pools don’t run swim teams or meets. Volunteers do. Further, there is no money in summer swim team budgets to pay volunteers. A single meet requires 18 timers, several officials, multiple marshals, and an entire data/tables staff. At $20/hour pp, the cost would be in the thousands per meet.
Summer swim is volunteer-run. If you want to participate, you help. If you absolutely can’t, then sure, a family could choose to pay someone to volunteer on its behalf. But to suggest a pool or team could simply pay people for these roles is extremely unrealistic.

The first person is asking a fair question, and the second response actually highlights why the model needs to change.
If a single meet requires dozens of critical roles and cannot function without a huge unpaid labor force, then parents are not "volunteering" in the casual sense, they are staffing the operation. That is real labor.

The idea that there is "no money" is also a choice, not a law of nature. Budgets can be adjusted. Fees can be structured with volunteer credits, opt-out fees, sponsorships, paid core staff, or hybrid models where some roles are compensated and others remain volunteer. Many youth activities already do exactly that.

What has changed is family life. In many households, both parents work, schedules are packed, and free time is limited. Time has become more valuable than it was for prior generations. Paying a fee instead of giving hours is a rational tradeoff for many families.

And let's be honest, timing races, snack bars, data entry, marshaling kids, and meet logistics are operational jobs. Pretending those jobs must only be done for free because "that's how summer swim works" is outdated thinking.
If the program is valuable, then labor should be valued too.

I think most people understand that and that's why the fees to swim are relatively low. If people think money is tight now, they won't be able to afford swimming fees when all the operational labor expenses are included. In my experience swim clubs are upfront about the expectations of parents to make it happen. Why are people agreeing then reneging on their obligation? Stop signing up if making it happen isn't possible for your busy schedule. Cut the freeloading kids if their parents don't step up.

DP. It's terrible to punish kids for the acts of their parents. That mentality flies in the face of what youth sports is supposed to be about. Not every family can contribute in the same way. Some can contribute money but not time, some time but not money, some have difficulty contributing in either way. Why is swim so special, so differently situated, that it requires parents to literally run the meets when nearly every other sport has managed to handle games/meets/tournaments? It's really not. And even if it's true that "this is the way it's always been," it doesn't mean it needs to stay that way for all eternity. There is a documented problem occurring: fewer parents are willing or able to volunteer for various reasons. So why not figure out a better way?

What is youth sports supposed to be about? It's only recently that it's exploded into this money making pay to play machine. In my parents' time, "youth sports" was kids getting their own bat and glove and heading down to the local park to play baseball. They made up their own rules and had to abide by them. There were no parents, umps or anything like that. Same for basketball. Their parents weren't wasting weekends timing youth swim meets. The concept of "youth sports" isn't what you seem to think it is.

I'm 50. I swam in summer swim and played rec basketball and rec soccer. How old are you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should hire a teenager to do their volunteer commitments if they don’t want to. I know a bunch of teenagers that would jump on timing a meet for babysitter type pay.

But really, it’s sad that people are so disengaged. We saw it in other sports too, we were always coaching rec teams.

If parents are willing to pay the fine instead of volunteering, why can't the teams do this? My kids have never done swim team and never will but if the pool was willing to pay them $15-20 an hour to work the snack bar or time the races, they would gladly do it.

The pools don’t run swim teams or meets. Volunteers do. Further, there is no money in summer swim team budgets to pay volunteers. A single meet requires 18 timers, several officials, multiple marshals, and an entire data/tables staff. At $20/hour pp, the cost would be in the thousands per meet.
Summer swim is volunteer-run. If you want to participate, you help. If you absolutely can’t, then sure, a family could choose to pay someone to volunteer on its behalf. But to suggest a pool or team could simply pay people for these roles is extremely unrealistic.

The first person is asking a fair question, and the second response actually highlights why the model needs to change.
If a single meet requires dozens of critical roles and cannot function without a huge unpaid labor force, then parents are not "volunteering" in the casual sense, they are staffing the operation. That is real labor.

The idea that there is "no money" is also a choice, not a law of nature. Budgets can be adjusted. Fees can be structured with volunteer credits, opt-out fees, sponsorships, paid core staff, or hybrid models where some roles are compensated and others remain volunteer. Many youth activities already do exactly that.

What has changed is family life. In many households, both parents work, schedules are packed, and free time is limited. Time has become more valuable than it was for prior generations. Paying a fee instead of giving hours is a rational tradeoff for many families.

And let's be honest, timing races, snack bars, data entry, marshaling kids, and meet logistics are operational jobs. Pretending those jobs must only be done for free because "that's how summer swim works" is outdated thinking.
If the program is valuable, then labor should be valued too.

I think most people understand that and that's why the fees to swim are relatively low. If people think money is tight now, they won't be able to afford swimming fees when all the operational labor expenses are included. In my experience swim clubs are upfront about the expectations of parents to make it happen. Why are people agreeing then reneging on their obligation? Stop signing up if making it happen isn't possible for your busy schedule. Cut the freeloading kids if their parents don't step up.

DP. It's terrible to punish kids for the acts of their parents. That mentality flies in the face of what youth sports is supposed to be about. Not every family can contribute in the same way. Some can contribute money but not time, some time but not money, some have difficulty contributing in either way. Why is swim so special, so differently situated, that it requires parents to literally run the meets when nearly every other sport has managed to handle games/meets/tournaments? It's really not. And even if it's true that "this is the way it's always been," it doesn't mean it needs to stay that way for all eternity. There is a documented problem occurring: fewer parents are willing or able to volunteer for various reasons. So why not figure out a better way?

What is youth sports supposed to be about? It's only recently that it's exploded into this money making pay to play machine. In my parents' time, "youth sports" was kids getting their own bat and glove and heading down to the local park to play baseball. They made up their own rules and had to abide by them. There were no parents, umps or anything like that. Same for basketball. Their parents weren't wasting weekends timing youth swim meets. The concept of "youth sports" isn't what you seem to think it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think our team is moving to a “volunteer or your kid doesn’t swim” model. Previously we had a fee model, but the fees weren’t high enough and the team reps were hesitant to make them higher. There will be exceptions for folks who really can’t make it, but it’s unusual for a family to not be able to make Friday night or Saturday morning at all. (Mondays are tough for everyone).

I don’t work in the summer, so I volunteer a lot. I absolutely understand folks who have demanding jobs and have issues making events. Either because they are too damn tired, or because they are busy with work or their other kids or whatever, but there is also a pretty large group who just assume someone else will do it. That’s the group that tends to complain the most, and then also not help out….they are the ones who make everyone else mad.

I’ve been around swim team a long time, and the people who volunteer the most don’t complain much because they see how hard everyone is working. I get if you don’t like the model, but that’s what you are signing up for.

"I don’t work in the summer,"

must be nice

DP
It is, but why so snarky?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think our team is moving to a “volunteer or your kid doesn’t swim” model. Previously we had a fee model, but the fees weren’t high enough and the team reps were hesitant to make them higher. There will be exceptions for folks who really can’t make it, but it’s unusual for a family to not be able to make Friday night or Saturday morning at all. (Mondays are tough for everyone).

I don’t work in the summer, so I volunteer a lot. I absolutely understand folks who have demanding jobs and have issues making events. Either because they are too damn tired, or because they are busy with work or their other kids or whatever, but there is also a pretty large group who just assume someone else will do it. That’s the group that tends to complain the most, and then also not help out….they are the ones who make everyone else mad.

I’ve been around swim team a long time, and the people who volunteer the most don’t complain much because they see how hard everyone is working. I get if you don’t like the model, but that’s what you are signing up for.

"I don’t work in the summer,"

must be nice

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t commit to the hours to volunteer, then your kid(s) don’t get to participate on the summer swim team.

I think that’s that fuss. You can’t say you want your kid to participate in an activity and also say you don’t have time to make the activity run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are done with swim team. I always enjoyed the community aspect of swim team. Now I have the luxury of showing up for a meet and doing whatever job needs to be done and not being responsible for anyone but me. I love volunteering and cheering the kids on.

wait what? your kids are done but you still volunteer your time? why why why why why

I officiate tons of club meets my kids don’t even swim in (mostly younger kid sessions where they generally don’t have volunteers). It’s a hobby. Prob will also help out for nvsl meets after they graduate and move on. It’s a way to give back and honestly, I think it’s pretty fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are done with swim team. I always enjoyed the community aspect of swim team. Now I have the luxury of showing up for a meet and doing whatever job needs to be done and not being responsible for anyone but me. I love volunteering and cheering the kids on.

wait what? your kids are done but you still volunteer your time? why why why why why

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should hire a teenager to do their volunteer commitments if they don’t want to. I know a bunch of teenagers that would jump on timing a meet for babysitter type pay.

But really, it’s sad that people are so disengaged. We saw it in other sports too, we were always coaching rec teams.

If parents are willing to pay the fine instead of volunteering, why can't the teams do this? My kids have never done swim team and never will but if the pool was willing to pay them $15-20 an hour to work the snack bar or time the races, they would gladly do it.

The pools don’t run swim teams or meets. Volunteers do. Further, there is no money in summer swim team budgets to pay volunteers. A single meet requires 18 timers, several officials, multiple marshals, and an entire data/tables staff. At $20/hour pp, the cost would be in the thousands per meet.
Summer swim is volunteer-run. If you want to participate, you help. If you absolutely can’t, then sure, a family could choose to pay someone to volunteer on its behalf. But to suggest a pool or team could simply pay people for these roles is extremely unrealistic.

The first person is asking a fair question, and the second response actually highlights why the model needs to change.
If a single meet requires dozens of critical roles and cannot function without a huge unpaid labor force, then parents are not "volunteering" in the casual sense, they are staffing the operation. That is real labor.

The idea that there is "no money" is also a choice, not a law of nature. Budgets can be adjusted. Fees can be structured with volunteer credits, opt-out fees, sponsorships, paid core staff, or hybrid models where some roles are compensated and others remain volunteer. Many youth activities already do exactly that.

What has changed is family life. In many households, both parents work, schedules are packed, and free time is limited. Time has become more valuable than it was for prior generations. Paying a fee instead of giving hours is a rational tradeoff for many families.

And let's be honest, timing races, snack bars, data entry, marshaling kids, and meet logistics are operational jobs. Pretending those jobs must only be done for free because "that's how summer swim works" is outdated thinking.
If the program is valuable, then labor should be valued too.

I think most people understand that and that's why the fees to swim are relatively low. If people think money is tight now, they won't be able to afford swimming fees when all the operational labor expenses are included. In my experience swim clubs are upfront about the expectations of parents to make it happen. Why are people agreeing then reneging on their obligation? Stop signing up if making it happen isn't possible for your busy schedule. Cut the freeloading kids if their parents don't step up.

DP. It's terrible to punish kids for the acts of their parents. That mentality flies in the face of what youth sports is supposed to be about. Not every family can contribute in the same way. Some can contribute money but not time, some time but not money, some have difficulty contributing in either way. Why is swim so special, so differently situated, that it requires parents to literally run the meets when nearly every other sport has managed to handle games/meets/tournaments? It's really not. And even if it's true that "this is the way it's always been," it doesn't mean it needs to stay that way for all eternity. There is a documented problem occurring: fewer parents are willing or able to volunteer for various reasons. So why not figure out a better way?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to find the time to volunteer for anything if you work full time, but summer swim is particularly rough. It starts in June when school is still in session and there's a flurry of end-of-year school activities. In our case, my kids are still in school for the first 3 weeks of the season and it's madness. On top of that, there is often overlap with spring or club sports wrapping up for the season. It's non-stop for nearly the entire month.

My kids are old enough now that I can let them manage themselves during the meets and they'll keep track of their events, and I can volunteer during the meets. But that wasn't the case when they were younger! There is no way my youngest would've made it to any of her events if she was left to manage herself during meets.

I am so tired of that excuse that your kids are so helpless they need you hovering. There are so many coaches and helpers in the team area. Let them know of your concern the kid might get distracted and let them do their job while you do one of your own.

You know every team is different right? The coaches on our team don’t watch the kids who aren’t in the water. They are there to coach not babysit. And there are approximately 40 kids in under 8 group alone. Our team is huge. There are no “helpers” watching these kids. That’s a joke. So yeah, when my 6 year old swam one 25 free and then had nothing to do for the next 3 hours, someone had to keep an eye on her. Too bad.

Let me guess: you’re also the person who complains when people don’t pay attention to their kids and let them go wild.

DP here but if your child can only swim freestyle, why is she on the team and not the preteam? Our preteam volunteer requirement is very low. In fact, bringing a snack or doing a craft at a pep rally takes care of that requirement.

Our team doesn't have a preteam. And there is only one meet on one day for ALL of the swimmers. Again, every team is different.

Working meets is the only way to volunteer?

There are volunteer opportunities during practices but practice starts at 5pm. That leaves only the Saturday meets for parents who can't make it at 5pm during weekdays.

We all make choices.

Exactly. Since you have so much free time and choose to spend it volunteering, why complain about others who choose differently?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should hire a teenager to do their volunteer commitments if they don’t want to. I know a bunch of teenagers that would jump on timing a meet for babysitter type pay.

But really, it’s sad that people are so disengaged. We saw it in other sports too, we were always coaching rec teams.

If parents are willing to pay the fine instead of volunteering, why can't the teams do this? My kids have never done swim team and never will but if the pool was willing to pay them $15-20 an hour to work the snack bar or time the races, they would gladly do it.

The pools don’t run swim teams or meets. Volunteers do. Further, there is no money in summer swim team budgets to pay volunteers. A single meet requires 18 timers, several officials, multiple marshals, and an entire data/tables staff. At $20/hour pp, the cost would be in the thousands per meet.
Summer swim is volunteer-run. If you want to participate, you help. If you absolutely can’t, then sure, a family could choose to pay someone to volunteer on its behalf. But to suggest a pool or team could simply pay people for these roles is extremely unrealistic.

The first person is asking a fair question, and the second response actually highlights why the model needs to change.
If a single meet requires dozens of critical roles and cannot function without a huge unpaid labor force, then parents are not "volunteering" in the casual sense, they are staffing the operation. That is real labor.

The idea that there is "no money" is also a choice, not a law of nature. Budgets can be adjusted. Fees can be structured with volunteer credits, opt-out fees, sponsorships, paid core staff, or hybrid models where some roles are compensated and others remain volunteer. Many youth activities already do exactly that.

What has changed is family life. In many households, both parents work, schedules are packed, and free time is limited. Time has become more valuable than it was for prior generations. Paying a fee instead of giving hours is a rational tradeoff for many families.

And let's be honest, timing races, snack bars, data entry, marshaling kids, and meet logistics are operational jobs. Pretending those jobs must only be done for free because "that's how summer swim works" is outdated thinking.
If the program is valuable, then labor should be valued too.

I think most people understand that and that's why the fees to swim are relatively low. If people think money is tight now, they won't be able to afford swimming fees when all the operational labor expenses are included. In my experience swim clubs are upfront about the expectations of parents to make it happen. Why are people agreeing then reneging on their obligation? Stop signing up if making it happen isn't possible for your busy schedule. Cut the freeloading kids if their parents don't step up.

DP. It's terrible to punish kids for the acts of their parents. That mentality flies in the face of what youth sports is supposed to be about. Not every family can contribute in the same way. Some can contribute money but not time, some time but not money, some have difficulty contributing in either way. Why is swim so special, so differently situated, that it requires parents to literally run the meets when nearly every other sport has managed to handle games/meets/tournaments? It's really not. And even if it's true that "this is the way it's always been," it doesn't mean it needs to stay that way for all eternity. There is a documented problem occurring: fewer parents are willing or able to volunteer for various reasons. So why not figure out a better way?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to find the time to volunteer for anything if you work full time, but summer swim is particularly rough. It starts in June when school is still in session and there's a flurry of end-of-year school activities. In our case, my kids are still in school for the first 3 weeks of the season and it's madness. On top of that, there is often overlap with spring or club sports wrapping up for the season. It's non-stop for nearly the entire month.

My kids are old enough now that I can let them manage themselves during the meets and they'll keep track of their events, and I can volunteer during the meets. But that wasn't the case when they were younger! There is no way my youngest would've made it to any of her events if she was left to manage herself during meets.

I am so tired of that excuse that your kids are so helpless they need you hovering. There are so many coaches and helpers in the team area. Let them know of your concern the kid might get distracted and let them do their job while you do one of your own.

You know every team is different right? The coaches on our team don’t watch the kids who aren’t in the water. They are there to coach not babysit. And there are approximately 40 kids in under 8 group alone. Our team is huge. There are no “helpers” watching these kids. That’s a joke. So yeah, when my 6 year old swam one 25 free and then had nothing to do for the next 3 hours, someone had to keep an eye on her. Too bad.

Let me guess: you’re also the person who complains when people don’t pay attention to their kids and let them go wild.

DP here but if your child can only swim freestyle, why is she on the team and not the preteam? Our preteam volunteer requirement is very low. In fact, bringing a snack or doing a craft at a pep rally takes care of that requirement.

Our team doesn't have a preteam. And there is only one meet on one day for ALL of the swimmers. Again, every team is different.

Working meets is the only way to volunteer?

There are volunteer opportunities during practices but practice starts at 5pm. That leaves only the Saturday meets for parents who can't make it at 5pm during weekdays.

We all make choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We now have two volunteer coordinators to encourage (harass) the parents who haven't fulfilled their volunteer requirements. By the end of the season, everyone gets their hours in. We have a large team, so generally do not have a problem getting volunteers.

We are MCSL. One thing I would change about our volunteer requirements, if you have an "A Meet Swimmer" you are required to become a trained official. We have trained officials who show up at A meets even when they don't have kids swimming. This should not need to happen.

I wouldn’t have an issue with that as long as I am not expected to show up to officiate the 4 hour B meet that my kid isn’t swimming in. At our pool most of the officials are parents of year round swimmers and their kids are generally not swimming B meets.

Anonymous wrote:We now have two volunteer coordinators to encourage (harass) the parents who haven't fulfilled their volunteer requirements. By the end of the season, everyone gets their hours in. We have a large team, so generally do not have a problem getting volunteers.

We are MCSL. One thing I would change about our volunteer requirements, if you have an "A Meet Swimmer" you are required to become a trained official. We have trained officials who show up at A meets even when they don't have kids swimming. This should not need to happen.