Someone on this forum once recommended that I check out a study done by this PhD called “Gossiping for Mates” or something like that. I listened to the interview with her and it’s absolutely fascinating. Basically goes into the evolutionary benefits of female gossip, relational aggression, and exclusion based on the perceived benefit of access to the best male mates.

I went on to share that title on another thread similar to this one, and this one woman tried to absolutely annihilate me that women NEVER do this, I’m a stupid b word, the study is garbage since the interview was done on a podcast, and on and on.

Go figure. Women are indeed awful to each other.

Anonymous wrote:Nope, not my experience. My family is run by strong women - my mom, grandmothers, & aunts are all the heart & backbone of the family. My mom & sister are my closest friends & lifelong supports. I have a few close friends who are awesome, & a group of work colleagues who have helped me immensely. Maybe I’m lucky or maybe you get what you give, but the majority of my connections with other women are positive & supportive.

Have you ever got on their bad side?

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, I'll be the opinion no one likes: I do think women are more prone to this (whether it's inherent or not). It exists more and more severely in women at every single age group.

Elementary, MS, HS . . . I've seen it in grad school, in mom groups, etc. etc. I even saw it at a memory care facility where 2 women were bullying the other women in the unit.

Does it happen in me? Of course. But not nearly as much or as badly. Women know they can consolidate "power" and hurt people through social exclusion, gossiping, and relational aggression.

No one will convince me otherwise. I've seen it and been on the receiving end of it so many times. And just read the Teen Board on here.

+1, posters also get mad whenever anyone says this but it wouldn't keep coming up if there were nothing to it.

IME some communities are more prone to this problem than others, and I've known women who behave this way in some settings but not others. It's complex. But there's a reason entire books have been written on how women and girls do harm to each other using relational aggression. It's definitely real.

Anonymous wrote:Nope, not my experience. My family is run by strong women - my mom, grandmothers, & aunts are all the heart & backbone of the family. My mom & sister are my closest friends & lifelong supports. I have a few close friends who are awesome, & a group of work colleagues who have helped me immensely. Maybe I’m lucky or maybe you get what you give, but the majority of my connections with other women are positive & supportive.

Stop. This is BS. Lots of lovely people are treated poorly. I've seen it so many times.

And that's great that your experience is so amazing . . . but even on this board, that is overwhelmingly not the case.

Sorry, I'll be the opinion no one likes: I do think women are more prone to this (whether it's inherent or not). It exists more and more severely in women at every single age group.

Elementary, MS, HS . . . I've seen it in grad school, in mom groups, etc. etc. I even saw it at a memory care facility where 2 women were bullying the other women in the unit.

Does it happen in me? Of course. But not nearly as much or as badly. Women know they can consolidate "power" and hurt people through social exclusion, gossiping, and relational aggression.

No one will convince me otherwise. I've seen it and been on the receiving end of it so many times. And just read the Teen Board on here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the mindset that all women must support each other based on common gender. Most people are wonderful. Some people are not my cup of tea. Same as it ever was.

I don't think all women need to support each other.

I do think sometimes women are intentionally unkind to each other and that's not necessary either. You can just be neutral. There are definitely women who are actively unkind to other women who aren't their friends, and that's totally uncalled for.

We've all been in that situation where we are with a group of women at work or socially and one of them just wants to rip on some other woman you all know. I refuse to participate in it but it's very disappointing that it's something I've consistently encountered in my life. It had thought that perhaps as women got older, it would dissipate and go away, but it doesn't. Instead the insecurities, and thus the things women compete over and criticize each other for, just evolve.

You need better friends. I'm 47 and can count on one hand the number of times I witnessed this and it was when I was in middle school. It's not hard to see these people for who they are and stay away from them.

I’m 53 and I have pretty much never witnessed a mean group of women in real life. The women I know in my personal and professional life are nothing like this. Sure Ive met some jerks — both men and women — but I’ve never seen this whole mean girl, clique thing since I left high school. And there wasn’t much of it in high school either.

I'm 53 also. Graduated HS in 91, college in 95, law school 99.

I saw dozens of instances in each time period and even today I belong to a neighborhood book club that the founding women have gate kept from some new neighbors. I.E- Susie (cute, athletic, communications professional) who moved in last Summer got invited, but Debbie (not cute, not athletic or fashionable, works at the Sheriffs office) didn't get invited when she moved here 4 years ago.

The moms at my kids school started a volleyball league a few years ago. I didn’t think anything of it until I found out that some brand new moms had been invited to play, even some that had never played the game before, but no one ever invited me or even hinted about it to me.
I am cute, athletic and fashionable but I live in the wrong neighborhood. I didn’t think it would matter that we live TWO miles away from most of the other families but it has mattered a ton.

Oh, I know that story. I learned from the kids at my child's school, during playdates, that apparently we live in the "wrong" neighborhood and the other parents don't want to be friends with us as a result. This is also how I learned that some of these parents are looking to petition the school board about the current school boundary. I suspect these parents don't realize their kids listen to their gossip and then repeat it to the subjects of that gossip during playdates.

This also reminds me of the time a woman I worked with forwarded me a work-related message that happened to have a back-and-forth between her and another woman at work where they $hit-talked me extensively. Oops. I knew before I saw it that one of them didn't like me (the other one defended me in the back-and-forth but not that aggressively) so it wasn't news but it still made me laugh that they would be that dumb. I'm not petty enough to take something like that to HR but based on what they were saying, I could have.

Some people are just awful.

Anonymous wrote:Women are so mean to other women. We are just sneaky about it, thus explaining why men are often clueless.

This. Women are mean in subtle, often backhanded ways.

It's especially pernicious because if you call someone out on it, they will say you are being oversensitive or reading into nothing, and since those are already existing, well accepted tropes about women that men already buy into (that women are over-emotional and irrational), men will nod along like "yup, sounds right."

The term gaslighting was original invented to describe something an abusive partner did to his wife, but in my real life, all the most effective gaslighters have been women. Nothing like a woman doing something truly vicious and then looking at you all wide eyed while saying "gosh, I have no idea what you are talking about -- are you sure it's not all in your head?"

#notallwomen, of course, but the ones who are like this do so much more damage to other women than most men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the mindset that all women must support each other based on common gender. Most people are wonderful. Some people are not my cup of tea. Same as it ever was.

I don't think all women need to support each other.

I do think sometimes women are intentionally unkind to each other and that's not necessary either. You can just be neutral. There are definitely women who are actively unkind to other women who aren't their friends, and that's totally uncalled for.

We've all been in that situation where we are with a group of women at work or socially and one of them just wants to rip on some other woman you all know. I refuse to participate in it but it's very disappointing that it's something I've consistently encountered in my life. It had thought that perhaps as women got older, it would dissipate and go away, but it doesn't. Instead the insecurities, and thus the things women compete over and criticize each other for, just evolve.

You need better friends. I'm 47 and can count on one hand the number of times I witnessed this and it was when I was in middle school. It's not hard to see these people for who they are and stay away from them.

I’m 53 and I have pretty much never witnessed a mean group of women in real life. The women I know in my personal and professional life are nothing like this. Sure Ive met some jerks — both men and women — but I’ve never seen this whole mean girl, clique thing since I left high school. And there wasn’t much of it in high school either.

I'm 53 also. Graduated HS in 91, college in 95, law school 99.

I saw dozens of instances in each time period and even today I belong to a neighborhood book club that the founding women have gate kept from some new neighbors. I.E- Susie (cute, athletic, communications professional) who moved in last Summer got invited, but Debbie (not cute, not athletic or fashionable, works at the Sheriffs office) didn't get invited when she moved here 4 years ago.

The moms at my kids school started a volleyball league a few years ago. I didn’t think anything of it until I found out that some brand new moms had been invited to play, even some that had never played the game before, but no one ever invited me or even hinted about it to me.
I am cute, athletic and fashionable but I live in the wrong neighborhood. I didn’t think it would matter that we live TWO miles away from most of the other families but it has mattered a ton.

Women are so mean to other women. We are just sneaky about it, thus explaining why men are often clueless.

Anonymous wrote:Nope, not my experience. My family is run by strong women - my mom, grandmothers, & aunts are all the heart & backbone of the family. My mom & sister are my closest friends & lifelong supports. I have a few close friends who are awesome, & a group of work colleagues who have helped me immensely. Maybe I’m lucky or maybe you get what you give, but the majority of my connections with other women are positive & supportive.

You’re lucky. “Get what you give” is offensive to the many nice people who keep getting shit from other humans every day.

Nope, not my experience. My family is run by strong women - my mom, grandmothers, & aunts are all the heart & backbone of the family. My mom & sister are my closest friends & lifelong supports. I have a few close friends who are awesome, & a group of work colleagues who have helped me immensely. Maybe I’m lucky or maybe you get what you give, but the majority of my connections with other women are positive & supportive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the mindset that all women must support each other based on common gender. Most people are wonderful. Some people are not my cup of tea. Same as it ever was.

I don't think all women need to support each other.

I do think sometimes women are intentionally unkind to each other and that's not necessary either. You can just be neutral. There are definitely women who are actively unkind to other women who aren't their friends, and that's totally uncalled for.

We've all been in that situation where we are with a group of women at work or socially and one of them just wants to rip on some other woman you all know. I refuse to participate in it but it's very disappointing that it's something I've consistently encountered in my life. It had thought that perhaps as women got older, it would dissipate and go away, but it doesn't. Instead the insecurities, and thus the things women compete over and criticize each other for, just evolve.

You need better friends. I'm 47 and can count on one hand the number of times I witnessed this and it was when I was in middle school. It's not hard to see these people for who they are and stay away from them.

I’m 53 and I have pretty much never witnessed a mean group of women in real life. The women I know in my personal and professional life are nothing like this. Sure Ive met some jerks — both men and women — but I’ve never seen this whole mean girl, clique thing since I left high school. And there wasn’t much of it in high school either.

I'm 53 also. Graduated HS in 91, college in 95, law school 99.

I saw dozens of instances in each time period and even today I belong to a neighborhood book club that the founding women have gate kept from some new neighbors. I.E- Susie (cute, athletic, communications professional) who moved in last Summer got invited, but Debbie (not cute, not athletic or fashionable, works at the Sheriffs office) didn't get invited when she moved here 4 years ago.

Ugh, that's so real. It starts in elementary school and never stops -- the hierarchies and excluding. The people who claim they've never encountered it have just never been on the receiving end, that's all.

Hopefully Debbie knows she's better off without that stupid bookclub. It's probably just a bunch of bored women getting drunk, not reading the book, and talking about whoever isn't there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, women are very mean to each other and I also see older women are very bitter and angry inside which is something I usually see less in older men. I am a doctor and handles 2 nursing homes and see this attitude all the time.

These older women have taken a lot of sh*t their whole lives, that’s why.

From other women, most likely.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, women are very mean to each other and I also see older women are very bitter and angry inside which is something I usually see less in older men. I am a doctor and handles 2 nursing homes and see this attitude all the time.

These older women have taken a lot of sh*t their whole lives, that’s why.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, women are very mean to each other and I also see older women are very bitter and angry inside which is something I usually see less in older men. I am a doctor and handles 2 nursing homes and see this attitude all the time.

This. I don't see anyone else as women hating another woman. It is sad but reality.