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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

Well if you know a guy I guess all measurables can be thrown out the window then. Bottom line most people in the Blair Zone are there because it is the cheapest inner section of MoCo and they couldn't afford better. Sure there are a few that chose it over more expensive places because they viewed it as a better fit for what ever reason. Schools are the same dynamic. Not many people go to Maryland if accepted into Yale, sure maybe a tiny handful for fit, cost or location but its pointless to discuss the outliers. Truth is there is a choice on which schools people want to go to, at least with the people with options and the overwhelming vast majority vote with their pocket books and go to the better ones. Its a fools errand to entertain the people who know a guy who knows a gal that sour grapes proclaimed at some BBQ that they choose the lesser option because they didn't wan't the better one. Its like listening to the people in nosebleeds about how good their vantage point is and how it's a better community in their row. Yet they almost always move down if given even the slightest chance but then again you know a guy.....

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

There is a huge misunderstanding about SMCS curriculum. The entire junior and senior years are designed to take only advanced STEM electives to get to learn one or two majors really in-depth and in-breadth, and all these advanced STEM electives require at least finishing Calc BC or MVC/DE in order to just understand the course content (or for biology or chemistry related electives, finishing AP bio or AP chem with a solid test score is some minimal entry level requirement). Tell me how you fill the seats with Blair-only students that usually won't take AP STEM courses until junior or senior year? What makes SMCS unique then?

SMCS curriculum is not designed to fit the needs from the top 10%. The new enrollment demographic will make it a re-branded AP-Stem program in every sense, and the top 1% will loose the opportunity to access the electives forever. This is not a huge loss for W-schools or region 4: they will find plenty supplement resource. Not the case for other schools, including Blair.

My DC who is in Blair SMCS told me this story: one day they wanted to take a bathroom break during class period. They went one bathroom and found kids making out; heading to another one and found the same thing. So they went downstairs for another bathroom full of weed smell. It took a long detour to find the 4th one that is usable. This is a normal Blair day.

Not everyone agrees with you that it's bad that that these "top 1% will loose [sic] the opportunity to access the electives forever." It shouldn't be that the top 1% get all of these enrichment options, while other talented students get nothing at all.

Many of the Blair SMCS kids have aggressive parents who fought to push them into Algebra 1 in 6th grade, when it's not even offered at that level in most schools, and most parents don't even know it's an option. Getting into this ultra accelerated track helps kids to score in the 99%+ on the MAP-M tests, which is the only test considered for Blair SMCS admission). Some Rockville test prep places brag in their promotional materials about how many kids they prepped for MAP testing who got into HS magnet programs each year. It's not an accident that most Blair SMCS kids come from only 4 HS clusters.

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

Well if you know a guy I guess all measurables can be thrown out the window then. Bottom line most people in the Blair Zone are there because it is the cheapest inner section of MoCo and they couldn't afford better. Sure there are a few that chose it over more expensive places because they viewed it as a better fit for what ever reason. Schools are the same dynamic. Not many people go to Maryland if accepted into Yale, sure maybe a tiny handful for fit, cost or location but its pointless to discuss the outliers. Truth is there is a choice on which schools people want to go to, at least with the people with options and the overwhelming vast majority vote with their pocket books and go to the better ones. Its a fools errand to entertain the people who know a guy who knows a gal that sour grapes proclaimed at some BBQ that they choose the lesser option because they didn't wan't the better one. Its like listening to the people in nosebleeds about how good their vantage point is and how it's a better community in their row. Yet they almost always move down if given even the slightest chance but then again you know a guy.....

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

Well if you know a guy I guess all measurables can be thrown out the window then. Bottom line most people in the Blair Zone are there because it is the cheapest inner section of MoCo and they couldn't afford better. Sure there are a few that chose it over more expensive places because they viewed it as a better fit for what ever reason. Schools are the same dynamic. Not many people go to Maryland if accepted into Yale, sure maybe a tiny handful for fit, cost or location but its pointless to discuss the outliers. Truth is there is a choice on which schools people want to go to, at least with the people with options and the overwhelming vast majority vote with their pocket books and go to the better ones. Its a fools errand to entertain the people who know a guy who knows a gal that sour grapes proclaimed at some BBQ that they choose the lesser option because they didn't wan't the better one. Its like listening to the people in nosebleeds about how good their vantage point is and how it's a better community in their row. Yet they almost always move down if given even the slightest chance but then again you know a guy.....

As someone who bought in the Blair zone for over $1M, I’m going to repeat my who are you and where do you even live question.

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has said all qualified students should get to attend the program they want. He's also said that he's planning to use the regional programs to help balance capacity numbers at schools. He obviously can't do both. For all the frustration that still exists around the regional model. I hope people continue to reach out to the board about their concerns. I'm sure it'll just get rubber stamped at this point, but maybe there is still some wiggle room. Getting Mr O involved gives me at least a little hope.

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

Well if you know a guy I guess all measurables can be thrown out the window then. Bottom line most people in the Blair Zone are there because it is the cheapest inner section of MoCo and they couldn't afford better. Sure there are a few that chose it over more expensive places because they viewed it as a better fit for what ever reason. Schools are the same dynamic. Not many people go to Maryland if accepted into Yale, sure maybe a tiny handful for fit, cost or location but its pointless to discuss the outliers. Truth is there is a choice on which schools people want to go to, at least with the people with options and the overwhelming vast majority vote with their pocket books and go to the better ones. Its a fools errand to entertain the people who know a guy who knows a gal that sour grapes proclaimed at some BBQ that they choose the lesser option because they didn't wan't the better one. Its like listening to the people in nosebleeds about how good their vantage point is and how it's a better community in their row. Yet they almost always move down if given even the slightest chance but then again you know a guy.....

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

Well if you know a guy I guess all measurables can be thrown out the window then. Bottom line most people in the Blair Zone are there because it is the cheapest inner section of MoCo and they couldn't afford better. Sure there are a few that chose it over more expensive places because they viewed it as a better fit for what ever reason. Schools are the same dynamic. Not many people go to Maryland if accepted into Yale, sure maybe a tiny handful for fit, cost or location but its pointless to discuss the outliers. Truth is there is a choice on which schools people want to go to, at least with the people with options and the overwhelming vast majority vote with their pocket books and go to the better ones. Its a fools errand to entertain the people who know a guy who knows a gal that sour grapes proclaimed at some BBQ that they choose the lesser option because they didn't wan't the better one. Its like listening to the people in nosebleeds about how good their vantage point is and how it's a better community in their row. Yet they almost always move down if given even the slightest chance but then again you know a guy.....

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

There is a huge misunderstanding about SMCS curriculum. The entire junior and senior years are designed to take only advanced STEM electives to get to learn one or two majors really in-depth and in-breadth, and all these advanced STEM electives require at least finishing Calc BC or MVC/DE in order to just understand the course content (or for biology or chemistry related electives, finishing AP bio or AP chem with a solid test score is some minimal entry level requirement). Tell me how you fill the seats with Blair-only students that usually won't take AP STEM courses until junior or senior year? What makes SMCS unique then?

SMCS curriculum is not designed to fit the needs from the top 10%. The new enrollment demographic will make it a re-branded AP-Stem program in every sense, and the top 1% will loose the opportunity to access the electives forever. This is not a huge loss for W-schools or region 4: they will find plenty supplement resource. Not the case for other schools, including Blair.

My DC who is in Blair SMCS told me this story: one day they wanted to take a bathroom break during class period. They went one bathroom and found kids making out; heading to another one and found the same thing. So they went downstairs for another bathroom full of weed smell. It took a long detour to find the 4th one that is usable. This is a normal Blair day.

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Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t like for region 1 is putting humanities at Whitman. I would really like to see this at Einstein or Northwood, and I don’t care which. My DCC kids could apply to IB at BCC but that’s still the second furthest option. I don’t see why Whitman needs a major draw magnet.

Neither BCC nor Whitman need magnets. They already have all the advanced classwork in their schools that they need. We know this because vanishingly few kids from these schools go to RMIB or Blair SMCS.

Obviously, these schools will attract high-performing kids from Einstein and Northwood (and maybe Blair) who have access to transportation from their parents. It won't go the other way around. BCC students and definitely not Whitman students will definitely NOT be traveling to Einstein, Northwood or Blair. This is how you create inequity. You try to make everything uniform, the same for everyone, but you ignore how these schools, including their course offerings, and the populations they serve are very different, and so trying to give everyone the same thing means giving more opportunities to the wealthiest students.

Yes, exactly.  The program analysis team admitted they did not consider equity in where programs were placed, and it shows. They seemed confused at the idea that anyone would have expected them to.  They really do not understand equity at all, and just use it as a buzzword.

And to the other poster who said "if Whitman doesn't have magnets, no one from out of boundaries will get to go to Whitman"... you can still give Whitman interest-based programs that allow out of boundary kids to go to Whitman if they really want.  The languages magnet seems fine to me-- Whitman offers more languages than other schools, let kids from other schools take advantage of Whitman language classes if they really want them. Their interest-based LASJ program also seems fine to me as an acceptable generic "I want my kid at Whitman, here's a way to do it" option.  

However, criteria-based academic magnets drawing top students are a totally different ballgame.  They increase the number of advanced students and advanced classes at schools, which can be really important and valuable for schools that struggle with that otherwise.  Giving a program like that to Whitman not only gives this benefit to a school that does not at all need it rather than to a school like Northwood that would have gained a lot from it, but actually actively hurt other schools by decreasing the number of advanced students in-bounds who stay. 

(It's also just offensive that Whitman kids will get a leg up in admissions to the humanities program because they will have a local set-aside that gives them a disproportionate share of slots.)

I'm not sure how this would really work for Region 5 - Currently we have Watkins Mill, Gaithersburg HS and Magruder and QO in Region 5. As a QO parent we would rather send our advanced kid to QO and just take AP courses rather than going to Gaithersburg HS which does not have a good rep and because the magnet will most likely be diluted with no strong cohorts for Region 5. I'm sure there will be other parents from QO who think the same.

It sucks because we had access to Poolesville before but now our kid who has no inclination to do anything in the medical field has to go to Gaithersburg or Watkins Mill for the advanced courses they are interested in and we want our kid in a learning environment not in schools with the worst reputations upcounty.

Just stay at QO. My DD is at Blair but if she was a bit younger she would not be attending a magnet. Even Blair won't be Blalr anymore. I predict many of these magnets will fail and at some point we will be back to a few strong ones.

Nothing will change at Blair. It will be fine.

Except 2/3rd of the gifted kids being imported in for the magnet won’t come and the special teachers will have options to go head new programs. The minimal middle class local pop will find it’s self applying to the two better schools it finds it’s self clustered with as it will no longer be the best of the DCC but in the bottom half of its new group. This too will cause a brain drain as motivated kids no longer seek it.

Without the influx Blair’s scores will fall and it will revert to being a high school version of eastern which it natively is.

You don't know much about this area, do you? There are tons of middle class families in the Blair/Northwood/Einstein area (the difference is that there are fewer upper-class families and more poor and working-class families than west of here, not that there's not many middle class families.) We don't need Blair to have a super-advanced program with the top 1% of kids in it to keep liking it-- it's popular largely because it's a good school, not because the SMCS kids are brilliant. And most of us don't want to go to Whitman or BCC, especially Whitman. Yes, Blair SMCS will change from being a super-elite program to "just" a strong program for smart kids, but we have plenty of smart kids in this area and most of us just don't care about it being an elite program as much as the parents from W schools do.

You can easily fill Blair with kids from the region but not all smart kids want to go. $200k is not middle class and some families make way more than that. You clearly don’t know parts of the dcc.

I think of the DCC I think of schools like Eastern which is like 2/3rd FARMS (and half of Blair) and other 1/3 I suspect not many break that 200K very often. Sure there a few neighborhood like Forest Glenn, woodside, Silgo Park Hills, Parts of Takoma where dual professionals are more common but those are small enclaves in a sea of other. You're quick to tout the benefits of these bucolic, well resourced and educated areas and their impact on the local school's culture even when in the minority but yet you dismiss what happens when the entire boundary of a school is comprised of similar if not more affluent and educated families. You can fill any program with any kids but right now most of the magnet kids are imported and you have all of the consortium thinking it is the best choice. That all changes day 1 of the new model and If you don't think local perceptions will change when the brain drain occurs and instead of coming in kids (the good students) start opting out to better schools and merit programs, well i hope you share your Kool-Aid

Why are you like this.

Are you from here? My neighbors and slightly further away neighbors are happy with Blair, Einstein, excited for the new Northwood, like the magnets at Eastern and Takoma Park, thrilled at SCES and Sligo Middle School. I actually know Woodlin people who were relieved not to get recommended for BCC because they prefer Einstein. Who are you and where are you that you have this perspective?

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Anonymous wrote:Taylor has said all qualified students should get to attend the program they want. He's also said that he's planning to use the regional programs to help balance capacity numbers at schools. He obviously can't do both. For all the frustration that still exists around the regional model. I hope people continue to reach out to the board about their concerns. I'm sure it'll just get rubber stamped at this point, but maybe there is still some wiggle room. Getting Mr O involved gives me at least a little hope.

This is what I am wondering about. We are zoned for BCC. My older child is already at BCC - if they had wanted to do the IB program, they would have been allowed to do it. My younger child will be at BCC in a few years - if they want to do the IB program, will the slots be limited bc of kids coming from elsewhere in the "region" or will they still have the option of doing IB as our home school? Or, is the differentiation that some kids will be eligible for the IB diploma, while others will just be able to take IB classes as part of the menu of options but not eligible for the diploma?

Folks with experience from current schools with IB magnets should chime in, but my understanding is that typically there is a specific IB "program"/"magnet"/"cohort" with limited spots and a specific course progression (although yes, as PP stated, kids at the host school get a leg up in admissions for that), but that the IB classes themselves are generally open to all students.

You might want to start a separate post asking about this, though-- while there are no guarantees about exactly how it will work at BCC, there are lots of schools with experience with countywide or regional IB programs and it is likely to be similar, so hearing from those parents could be helpful for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has said all qualified students should get to attend the program they want. He's also said that he's planning to use the regional programs to help balance capacity numbers at schools. He obviously can't do both. For all the frustration that still exists around the regional model. I hope people continue to reach out to the board about their concerns. I'm sure it'll just get rubber stamped at this point, but maybe there is still some wiggle room. Getting Mr O involved gives me at least a little hope.

This is what I am wondering about. We are zoned for BCC. My older child is already at BCC - if they had wanted to do the IB program, they would have been allowed to do it. My younger child will be at BCC in a few years - if they want to do the IB program, will the slots be limited bc of kids coming from elsewhere in the "region" or will they still have the option of doing IB as our home school? Or, is the differentiation that some kids will be eligible for the IB diploma, while others will just be able to take IB classes as part of the menu of options but not eligible for the diploma?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has said all qualified students should get to attend the program they want. He's also said that he's planning to use the regional programs to help balance capacity numbers at schools. He obviously can't do both. For all the frustration that still exists around the regional model. I hope people continue to reach out to the board about their concerns. I'm sure it'll just get rubber stamped at this point, but maybe there is still some wiggle room. Getting Mr O involved gives me at least a little hope.

This is what I am wondering about. We are zoned for BCC. My older child is already at BCC - if they had wanted to do the IB program, they would have been allowed to do it. My younger child will be at BCC in a few years - if they want to do the IB program, will the slots be limited bc of kids coming from elsewhere in the "region" or will they still have the option of doing IB as our home school? Or, is the differentiation that some kids will be eligible for the IB diploma, while others will just be able to take IB classes as part of the menu of options but not eligible for the diploma?

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has said all qualified students should get to attend the program they want. He's also said that he's planning to use the regional programs to help balance capacity numbers at schools. He obviously can't do both. For all the frustration that still exists around the regional model. I hope people continue to reach out to the board about their concerns. I'm sure it'll just get rubber stamped at this point, but maybe there is still some wiggle room. Getting Mr O involved gives me at least a little hope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, even if Mr. O fully embraces his new role, he will focus his energy on making sure that new magnets have credible curriculums. He won't try to influence magnet placement since that will only antagonize people.

Sadly but true. One hand cannot clap.