Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Yes! The hatred is directed outwardly at us. It's helped a lot to understand that even though my stbx despises everything about me now (I mean wtf...he was sending loving texts right up to the day before he did an absolute 180....) he hates himself the most. I don't think he'll ever be able to face himself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him that he is so deeply broken. But then he lobs another grenade. Sorry you're going through it, too. Working in therapy to understand why I was drawn to him has helped a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

God. This x 1000000. When I confronted my mild-mannered, quiet husband about his affair, I could not have imagined the hell that he then unleashed. It was terrifying and absolutely rattled me until a psychiatric nurse, friend of a friend, heard my story and suggested I read about covert narcissism. Putting a name to the behavior and personality traits has been really helpful in trying to navigate this divorce. As has therapy with someone who understands this kind of NPD. Once he was unmasked he decided he was out for blood. I'm still fielding questions from people who knew him who know how he has behaved since he initiated the divorce because they don't understand how such a "good guy" could have become so unhinged. I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation but he has strewn wreckage far and wide. All those years he was just sitting quietly in the corner, taking notes, seething. I ignored the red flags. That's on me. But in hindsight OMG they were there.

If I’m in a situation that fits your description, as he sits back quietly, his rage and resentment ongoing and building, what can I expect in divorce with young kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

God. This x 1000000. When I confronted my mild-mannered, quiet husband about his affair, I could not have imagined the hell that he then unleashed. It was terrifying and absolutely rattled me until a psychiatric nurse, friend of a friend, heard my story and suggested I read about covert narcissism. Putting a name to the behavior and personality traits has been really helpful in trying to navigate this divorce. As has therapy with someone who understands this kind of NPD. Once he was unmasked he decided he was out for blood. I'm still fielding questions from people who knew him who know how he has behaved since he initiated the divorce because they don't understand how such a "good guy" could have become so unhinged. I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation but he has strewn wreckage far and wide. All those years he was just sitting quietly in the corner, taking notes, seething. I ignored the red flags. That's on me. But in hindsight OMG they were there.

Anonymous wrote:I stayed 25 years. There were good times and bad times and I sucked it up thinking it was better than what he would do to me if I left. When I finally left I can only say I’m glad I “stayed for the kids”. I now see what he’s capable of and it’s terrible. He would have hurt the kids just to hurt me. He’s doing it now but at least they are adults and can get away.

Anonymous wrote:The other poster got me wondering…

Anyone out there who is married to a narcissist and doing well?

Anonymous wrote:I thought this thread would be about NARCs who've managed to stay married and how they managed to be "good enough." Instead, it is a bunch of women self-identifying their spouses. No problem, but I would like to hear from more NARCs (female or male /diagnosed or self-diagnosed) who've stayed married.

Anonymous wrote:I thought this thread would be about NARCs who've managed to stay married and how they managed to be "good enough." Instead, it is a bunch of women self-identifying their spouses. No problem, but I would like to hear from more NARCs (female or male /diagnosed or self-diagnosed) who've stayed married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists ever brought into court to make a statement?

This is complicated and probably very specific. Regarding court, we have only been able to subpoena frequency and existence of visits and a psychological diagnosis from other providers.

How my STBX used therapy:

-secretly went to therapy and shared what appears to be a very distorted/edited history of our shared life. Maybe with some kind of manipulative future plans but more likely just to get validation and supply
-used the fact that he went to therapy to show during the custody evaluation that he was in touch with his feelings and “doing the work”
-I refused therapy when he begged for couples counseling the day he filed for divorce; he is trying to use this against me (but I still feel strongly that you do not go to therapy with a person like this)
-used the vocabulary and therapeutic language he picked up from his therapy first to manipulate me during our marriage and then to manipulate psychological testing and conversations with the custody evaluator

Basically someone with this level of disorder is going to use anything in their favor and against the healthy person. You have to remember that they’ve made it through decades of their lives using people and situations to their advantage, and with very little concern for the gap between their made-up version of events vs. the truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Yes! The hatred is directed outwardly at us. It's helped a lot to understand that even though my stbx despises everything about me now (I mean wtf...he was sending loving texts right up to the day before he did an absolute 180....) he hates himself the most. I don't think he'll ever be able to face himself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him that he is so deeply broken. But then he lobs another grenade. Sorry you're going through it, too. Working in therapy to understand why I was drawn to him has helped a lot.

Curious why your therapist thinks you were drawn to him?


Mine said because I’m an empath, give the benefit of the doubt too long, and am high functioning type A.

In my case the narc is asd and bipolar II and it was his maladaptive coping walls that made him a narc.
His mother also allowed him to be “stubborn” (understatement!) and do whatever he wanted, or else he’d be difficult and mean. He continues that behavior. She raised a monster. Throws a fit to get what he wants, easier on other person to be silent. While walking on eggshells BS. He loves for you to shut up and take it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're divorcing a narc, I'd move out and officially separate and then wait at least a year before you engage in settlement talks with them. Otherwise, you're very likely to agree to settlement terms that you'll regret once you've got some emotional distance from the narc. My sense is that people married to narcs don't realize how much their thinking is clouded by the narc and it takes time to really get a good perspective on the situation. And ideally, do a lump sum payment to the narc so that you aren't required to keep interacting with them for years and years. You need a clean break and that won't happen if they are lurking around for decades collecting your money every month. My friend divorced about two years ago and he can now see that she was controlling him during the divorce negotiations and he allowed himself to be taken advantage of by her. As I see it, he signed those papers when he wasn't in his right mind, but no court will undo it now.

Your “friend” sounds like a narcissist who regrets giving their ex the money they deserve from their lifetime together.