Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions at top colleges has become extremely competitive. Most students nowadays would be wise to consider a broader range of possible schools that might work for them. Something that has changed in recent years is that taking 14 AP classes and being heavily accelerated in math is actually no longer considered to be especially beneficial in the admissions process.

This. The people obsessing over ensuring their elementary-age kid can take 4-5 AP math classes in high school are simply focusing on the wrong things.

To the parent early who said they don't want their kid cruising through easy classes in middle school: agreed! That doesn't mean that the only way to challenge your kid or prepare them for high school and college is to accelerate them as much as possible. For me, ensuring my kid is challenged means having high expectations for mastery of fundamental concepts (math facts down cold, excellent spelling and grammar, strong reading comprehension skills with both literary and technical texts). It also means they are expanding horizons with music, foreign language, science, and social studies. I want to see lab science in middle school, and project-based history and civics learning that requires kids to go deep, work with a variety of sources, and practice using critical thinking to examine what they are learning. I want see kids reading entire books, and I want to see continue evolution of writing skills across multiple metrics.

But I don't need my kid to take Geometry in middle school. I'm not opposed to it, but it's not important to me.

Which middle schools do you think do this in the public realm in DC? I think most of the privates do.

Anonymous wrote:Admissions at top colleges has become extremely competitive. Most students nowadays would be wise to consider a broader range of possible schools that might work for them. Something that has changed in recent years is that taking 14 AP classes and being heavily accelerated in math is actually no longer considered to be especially beneficial in the admissions process.

This. The people obsessing over ensuring their elementary-age kid can take 4-5 AP math classes in high school are simply focusing on the wrong things.

To the parent early who said they don't want their kid cruising through easy classes in middle school: agreed! That doesn't mean that the only way to challenge your kid or prepare them for high school and college is to accelerate them as much as possible. For me, ensuring my kid is challenged means having high expectations for mastery of fundamental concepts (math facts down cold, excellent spelling and grammar, strong reading comprehension skills with both literary and technical texts). It also means they are expanding horizons with music, foreign language, science, and social studies. I want to see lab science in middle school, and project-based history and civics learning that requires kids to go deep, work with a variety of sources, and practice using critical thinking to examine what they are learning. I want see kids reading entire books, and I want to see continue evolution of writing skills across multiple metrics.

But I don't need my kid to take Geometry in middle school. I'm not opposed to it, but it's not important to me.

Admissions at top colleges has become extremely competitive. Most students nowadays would be wise to consider a broader range of possible schools that might work for them. Something that has changed in recent years is that taking 14 AP classes and being heavily accelerated in math is actually no longer considered to be especially beneficial in the admissions process.

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Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Yes, PP here. My spouse is an engineer who attended an Ivy. He did the same as you and it prepared him for a very tough, competitive engineering program. He also spent two years of elementary school (in a rural district) doing this weird experimental math curriculum where they taught math by converting it to letters? It sounds insane and bad. But he recovered from that dumb idea and is a successful structural engineer.

I bet he learned facts in science classes, though.

Maybe? I think the point is more that UMC and wealthy parents tend to catastrophize over education. This thread is full of parents flipping out that if their kid doesn't take Geometry in 8th, or is exposed to a substandard science curriculum,they won't even get into college. These same parents will wind up on the College boards freaking out because their kid might attend a school ranked outside the "top 20" or "top 50" schools. These parents are just anxious and lack perspective.

And they are passing that anxiety and lack of perspective onto their elementary age kids, who will then bring it to school with them. It's toxic.

Way to justify your poor choice of schools PP.

Nope, parent here with no anxiety. Just not interested in my kid cruising thru school so easy and putting in no effort whatsoever. I want him to be challenged and reach his full potential.

You do you. Maybe you have an average kid and like that your kid is at the top of the heap. I don’t know. That is fine.

But delegating every parent looking for the best education for their kid as anxiety drive serves no one and looks poorly on you.

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Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Yes, PP here. My spouse is an engineer who attended an Ivy. He did the same as you and it prepared him for a very tough, competitive engineering program. He also spent two years of elementary school (in a rural district) doing this weird experimental math curriculum where they taught math by converting it to letters? It sounds insane and bad. But he recovered from that dumb idea and is a successful structural engineer.

I bet he learned facts in science classes, though.

Maybe? I think the point is more that UMC and wealthy parents tend to catastrophize over education. This thread is full of parents flipping out that if their kid doesn't take Geometry in 8th, or is exposed to a substandard science curriculum,they won't even get into college. These same parents will wind up on the College boards freaking out because their kid might attend a school ranked outside the "top 20" or "top 50" schools. These parents are just anxious and lack perspective.

And they are passing that anxiety and lack of perspective onto their elementary age kids, who will then bring it to school with them. It's toxic.

What if the problem is that DCPS is not adequtely preparing kids for, say, STEM careers?

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Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Yes, PP here. My spouse is an engineer who attended an Ivy. He did the same as you and it prepared him for a very tough, competitive engineering program. He also spent two years of elementary school (in a rural district) doing this weird experimental math curriculum where they taught math by converting it to letters? It sounds insane and bad. But he recovered from that dumb idea and is a successful structural engineer.

I bet he learned facts in science classes, though.

Maybe? I think the point is more that UMC and wealthy parents tend to catastrophize over education. This thread is full of parents flipping out that if their kid doesn't take Geometry in 8th, or is exposed to a substandard science curriculum,they won't even get into college. These same parents will wind up on the College boards freaking out because their kid might attend a school ranked outside the "top 20" or "top 50" schools. These parents are just anxious and lack perspective.

And they are passing that anxiety and lack of perspective onto their elementary age kids, who will then bring it to school with them. It's toxic.

Sorry but college admissions today is not anywhere remotely similar to college admissions 20 or 30 years ago.

You guys are way behind the times who are claiming you were math or engineering majors only taking Cal by 12th. Today, you are outliers for sure and bottom of the heap.

That is the reality.

I care a lot about middle school english and math being challenging. I am personally okay with science and social studies at the middle school level being engaging but somewhat less challenging. This is probably somewhat similar to I do not really care about the availability of middle school advanced algebra. Some educators like Amplify. It got good scores from EdReports. It has been used for several years in other areas. This is the first year DCPS is using it so maybe it will improve last year’s low test scores. I do not know. Everyone will not have the same viewpoint.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Yes, PP here. My spouse is an engineer who attended an Ivy. He did the same as you and it prepared him for a very tough, competitive engineering program. He also spent two years of elementary school (in a rural district) doing this weird experimental math curriculum where they taught math by converting it to letters? It sounds insane and bad. But he recovered from that dumb idea and is a successful structural engineer.

I bet he learned facts in science classes, though.

I fully agree that college-bound not behind in math kids should all at least take algebra by 8th grade. But there is a large cohort at for example Arlington Public Schools taking pre-Algebra in 8th and Algebra in 9th. Algebra is still considered a high school course and Calculus a college course. So its an accelerated track to even take Algebra in 8th in that sense.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Yes, PP here. My spouse is an engineer who attended an Ivy. He did the same as you and it prepared him for a very tough, competitive engineering program. He also spent two years of elementary school (in a rural district) doing this weird experimental math curriculum where they taught math by converting it to letters? It sounds insane and bad. But he recovered from that dumb idea and is a successful structural engineer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CAPE middle school math scores. The following schools offer algebra: Wells, Hardy, OA, Brookland, CHML, Browne, Deal, Eliot-Hine, John Francis, Hart, Johnson, Kramer, MacFarland, Kelley Miller, Sousa, Stuart-Hovson, Jefferson, McKinley, CHEC, and Cardozo.

The following had geometry: Hardy, OA, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Sousa, Jefferson, and CHEC

So, no overwhelming majority of schools do not offer geometry.

Here is the other thing. You can name a course whatever you want but is it really covering what is needed, rigorous, and are the students mastering the subjects.

PP why don’t you give us the CAPE algebra scores of 4 and above for all the schools above.

Algebra I meets/exceeds:
Deal 92%
MacFarland 86%
Hardy 84%
John Francis 75%
Stuart-Hobson 70%
Wells 68%
Eliot-Hine 66%
Oyster-Adams 59%
Jefferson 50%
Kelly Miller 43%

The other half are below 25%


Geometry meets/exceeds:
Deal >95%
Hardy >95%
Eliot-Hine 53%

The others have fewer than 10 students so scores are not reported

So Algebra 1 in middle school just gets you to Cal in 12th. This is the standard track, nothing advance at all.

A lot of shifting goalposts here.

"Basically no DCPS middle schools offer Algebra!"
"Actually all of them do."
"Well it's not rigorous. Show me the standardized test scores!"
"9 schools have more than half of students meeting or exceeding standards."
"Well Algebra isn't advanced math anyway."

This. Also the PP who noted that taking AP Calc in 10th is really not necessary for all kids, even those who are academically ambitious. It could be beneficial for a minority of kids who are (1) ready for it, and (2) aiming for STEM majors in college. If your kid is unlikely to be in either of those categories, it's perfectly fine for them to take Geometry in HS. They can still take Calc in 11th and do both AP Calc classes before college, which will prepare the vast majority of kids for college. In terms of college admissions, what will be most important will be actual grades in those classes, as well as standardized test scores. Outside of a handful of majors, taking Calc in 10th grade is simply not necessary.

Also, Algebra I in 8th is still considered accelerated. Standard track means Algebra I in 9th grade. Geometry in 8th should be properly reserved only for kids who are truly advanced in math. That's good! Even at a school with exclusively UMC students and plenty of resources, the idea that ALL kids, or even half of kids, should be taking the most accelerated math track doesn't make sense. Kids have different strengths and interests. That track should be selective.

I have an undergraduate degree in math, a graduate degree in applied math, and a good career that involves applied math.

I took Algebra I in 8th, BC Calc in 12th. I did not need additional acceleration.

Anonymous wrote:I do not really remember my own middle school science. But I know it involved textbooks and old school rote memorization of facts. Amplify is part of a recent movement away from this style of learning in favor of requiring younger students to engage more deeply, thinking more critically, make connections to real-world scenarios, also build writing skills etc.

How exactly are the students going to do inquiry based learning if they don’t have content down, especially in science?

As to writing, if the kids are not even on grade level with reading and barely reading at 3rd grade level, how are they going to be able to write a coherent few paragraphs?

It sounds like it’s going to be a disaster especially in the title 1 schools where kids get absolutely no content building at home.

I agree, it sounds like the Lucy Calkins of reading and we know how that all went.

Anonymous wrote:To recap: 8th grade Algebra is 1 year of math acceleration, 8th grade Geometry is 2 years, AA is 3 years. A small number of students and Deal (and Basis) do 3 years of middle school math acceleration. Amplify science is research-based, widely used by a very large number of school districts and not unique to DCPS. Is there something better out there? maybe. but its not a very good data point for arguing why dcps is uniquely terrible. reading full books at a decent clip is important. at least some dcps middle school classes do this.

For any college bound kid, 8th grade Algebra is not accelerated. That gets you to Cal at 12th. This is standard, basic and the minimum. This is standard in schools around the DMV.

8th grade geometry is 1 year advance.