If someone would rather do 25 Christmas tasks than have sex with you, maybe stop counting the tasks and arguing about what’s unnecessary and ask why you’re so bad at sex that vacuuming or setting up a cheese platter or scrubbing a toilet is higher on the list.

Just saying as someone who’s exDH also whined but never looked back at himself to wonder why I’d rather hang lights in a driving ice storm than have 5 minutes as his personal sex robot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

I could do all of those things, including the 25 other different things I enjoy doing.

Why do you have to use this time to get more and more and more and more attention from me you have me the other 300 days of the year.

Hey. If you are “Christmas lady” and you wait all year for it to come around so that you can do all of the things, and you are pretty go with the flow the rest of the year, then you should go for it and your husband should respect that.

That’s like being an accountant during tax season or a coach during play-off season.

Anonymous wrote:And you guys wonder why your husbands cheat.

And then you wonder why women who divorce are way happier than they were with their husbands. And how miserable men are now that they have to take care of themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

I could do all of those things, including the 25 other different things I enjoy doing.

Why do you have to use this time to get more and more and more and more attention from me you have me the other 300 days of the year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Normal

Grow up.

Send her to the 4 seasons alone tomorrow to recharge to spa and sleep . Be a good spouse.

He'd be a good dude if he did this. But she's still not going to want to have sex with him, and you're kind of cruel for implying that she's going to be hot for him after a spa day.

It actually disgusts me reading your comment.

She’s tired and stressed out and I suggest sending her away for a night to sleep and spa. Your response is you would only do that if she would return and want to have sex.

You’re not even thinking oh that would be a nice thing for her to be less stressed out.

You could not do something nice for a woman unless you get something (sex) in return for it.

You are a disgusting human being.

You are a bad reader. I said he'd be a good dude if he did that. In other words - the opposite of saying he shouldn't arrange a spa day for her.

The fact remains that she's not going to be hot for him because of the spa day, and you're doing harm by leading OP to believe that's the effect it will have.

But who is going to do all the things she was planning to get done on that day? If he's "giving" her a spa day, he's really just asking her to waste some of her work time. If she declines, he'll pout.

Then do it this Saturday after Christmas

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Normal

Grow up.

Send her to the 4 seasons alone tomorrow to recharge to spa and sleep . Be a good spouse.

He'd be a good dude if he did this. But she's still not going to want to have sex with him, and you're kind of cruel for implying that she's going to be hot for him after a spa day.

It actually disgusts me reading your comment.

She’s tired and stressed out and I suggest sending her away for a night to sleep and spa. Your response is you would only do that if she would return and want to have sex.

You’re not even thinking oh that would be a nice thing for her to be less stressed out.

You could not do something nice for a woman unless you get something (sex) in return for it.

You are a disgusting human being.

You are a bad reader. I said he'd be a good dude if he did that. In other words - the opposite of saying he shouldn't arrange a spa day for her.

The fact remains that she's not going to be hot for him because of the spa day, and you're doing harm by leading OP to believe that's the effect it will have.

You are bad at understanding language.

You inferred that he shouldn’t do anything good for her unless he’s gonna get sex and return and I never intuited that he would get sex. I just said it would be nice to do something nice.

You assumed I meant sex in return because you guys only do nice things for sex

And you guys wonder why your husbands cheat.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We’re empty nesters. Labor divided pretty evenly I would say. I don’t know. I guess I’m crazy for desiring intimacy with my wife around the holidays?

“Labor divided pretty evenly, I would say.”

I wonder what SHE would say. No, wait, I actually don’t.

And the wheedling “I guess I’m crazy for desiring intimacy with my wife around the holidays” is SO unattractive. Wife should offer him a cuddle, an extended, prolonged one. You know, because it’s really about “intimacy,” right? 🙄

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my tip to men who want sex on a holiday: get those kids to bed early. You want sex on Christmas? Get off your keister and get dinner for the kids on the table by 6 at the latest. 5 is better. Play a game with them after dinner. Wife can participate or go relax (the latter is better -- suggest it). Pay attention to what time it is when you are playing with the kids, and set a timer if you need to. Initiate bedtime. Stay on the kids to get in jammies and get teeth brushed, and assume it will require more effort than usual because they will be overstimulated. Get them in bed, on time or even early (especially if they were up late the night before and up early for presents). As you tuck them in, take a sec to quick pick up a few toys or just rust a little.

Then ask your wife to come have a drink with you. Or a snack if she doesn't drink. Sit in the light if the tree and talk about the day. Take a moment to thank her for the work she put into making it a good holiday. All of this should be happening before 9pm, cause she's tired.

That's your best chance for Christmas nooky. If you aren't willing to do this, don't complain.

Men, do this anyway for nonsexual reasons. However, this will not make her hot for you. And, if you follow this advice as a way to have sex, you will end up feeling resentful; because it's not going to work.

PP here, and yes, if you do this assuming you will be "repaid" with sex -- no. You aren't owed sex, and the things I'm suggesting ARE things a husband and father should do anyway. My point is more that if you want to have sex with your wife, you can't sit around waiting for your wife to be done with all the other stuff she's doing on the holiday and then expect her to have the energy or interest in sex at the end of a long, active day with heightened expectations. A holiday can be incredibly rewarding and full of wonderful memories, but it can also be draining. You simply cannot expect one who has been managing that entire day to have interest/energy for sex.

But if you actually contribute, give her a break, engage with your kids so that she can take a step back, encourage her to relax as she has likely been encouraging others to relax throughout the day, thank her for her efforts, and seek to connect emotionally with her as a person, you will have made sex a thing that could possibly happen. Maybe it still won't. But at a minimum, you will likely have some emotional and physical intimacy, which will be good for your relationship generally and should be a pleasurable end to the day for your both. If you do stuff like this, I do think ultimately sex is more likely, whether on the holiday or at another time. This is how you build a healthy marriage.

A lot of men will just let the day unfold, let their wives do everything, not pay attention to what time it is or say things like "oh who cares when the kids go to bed, it's a holiday" or even "stop hassling them!" and complain about how she's not letting people have fun. And then when the kids finally go to bed at 10pm, and the house is still a wreck, he'll expect his wife to want to have sex with him. And that definitely won't "work" in the sense you are talking about. Because you are neglecting your family and your relationship and have totally unrealistic expectations of other people based on a pretty ignorant understanding of how holidays work.

Same goes for vacations -- if you leave your wife to plan and execute your whole freaking vacation and then get annoyed when she doesn't ALSO make time for vacation sex... you have quite literally laid your own bed there. Women need a partner to parent with and manage your household and life with. The don't need yet another service to perform for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

I hear you. But you don’t have to blow things off. You can just go to parties if you are available, spend one afternoon picking out gifts at one store, not host a party on your own, host houseguests in a spare room, and make a meat, veggie, and starch for dinner or order takeout. It doesn’t have to be a feast.
And then you can spend the time you would spend focused on those things doing all of the Christmas traditions (picking the perfect tree, going to the Nutcracker, riding the Polar Express, etc.), doing religious things (Jesse tree , church, giving to the poor, etc), and decorating your house for Christmas.

Or you can decide that you want to focus on hosting a party and accepting party invitations, visiting extended family, and sending out beautiful cards. And then you don’t go to all of the traditional things, decorate minimally, and spend one or two afternoons shopping for gifts for everyone (including kids).

You shouldn’t blow off everything, but you can’t make everything the most important thing either.

I think everyone knows that half-assing some of the stuff is an option. Not sure what you think you're proving here with your condescending explanation. We all have the option of blowing things off, choosing gifts very sloppily, not visiting, etc., and that has consequences that we can choose to accept. Clearly, OP's wife has considered her options and would rather direct her energy into Christmas stuff rather than having s*x with OP. She's not laboring under the delusion that all of this other stuff is required. She just isn't that into OP. Whether he chooses to help her, reason with her, or belittle her is up to OP.

Pp here. I didn’t know this. I grew up with a mom who did all of the things, made herself insane, still does them, makes herself and everyone else miserable, and then judges me for not doing the things.
It’s been really helpful to have a spouse who tells me not to make myself crazy. Yes, he wants me to do less than I want to do, but I feel like it’s fair to force him to do a few things that really matter to me. It’s not fair to disconnect with my nuclear family so that I can make sure we do everything my mom thinks we should do.

Op, how old are you guys?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

I hear you. But you don’t have to blow things off. You can just go to parties if you are available, spend one afternoon picking out gifts at one store, not host a party on your own, host houseguests in a spare room, and make a meat, veggie, and starch for dinner or order takeout. It doesn’t have to be a feast.
And then you can spend the time you would spend focused on those things doing all of the Christmas traditions (picking the perfect tree, going to the Nutcracker, riding the Polar Express, etc.), doing religious things (Jesse tree , church, giving to the poor, etc), and decorating your house for Christmas.

Or you can decide that you want to focus on hosting a party and accepting party invitations, visiting extended family, and sending out beautiful cards. And then you don’t go to all of the traditional things, decorate minimally, and spend one or two afternoons shopping for gifts for everyone (including kids).

You shouldn’t blow off everything, but you can’t make everything the most important thing either.

I think everyone knows that half-assing some of the stuff is an option. Not sure what you think you're proving here with your condescending explanation. We all have the option of blowing things off, choosing gifts very sloppily, not visiting, etc., and that has consequences that we can choose to accept. Clearly, OP's wife has considered her options and would rather direct her energy into Christmas stuff rather than having s*x with OP. She's not laboring under the delusion that all of this other stuff is required. She just isn't that into OP. Whether he chooses to help her, reason with her, or belittle her is up to OP.

Okay.
You keep doing you!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

I hear you. But you don’t have to blow things off. You can just go to parties if you are available, spend one afternoon picking out gifts at one store, not host a party on your own, host houseguests in a spare room, and make a meat, veggie, and starch for dinner or order takeout. It doesn’t have to be a feast.
And then you can spend the time you would spend focused on those things doing all of the Christmas traditions (picking the perfect tree, going to the Nutcracker, riding the Polar Express, etc.), doing religious things (Jesse tree , church, giving to the poor, etc), and decorating your house for Christmas.

Or you can decide that you want to focus on hosting a party and accepting party invitations, visiting extended family, and sending out beautiful cards. And then you don’t go to all of the traditional things, decorate minimally, and spend one or two afternoons shopping for gifts for everyone (including kids).

You shouldn’t blow off everything, but you can’t make everything the most important thing either.

I think everyone knows that half-assing some of the stuff is an option. Not sure what you think you're proving here with your condescending explanation. We all have the option of blowing things off, choosing gifts very sloppily, not visiting, etc., and that has consequences that we can choose to accept. Clearly, OP's wife has considered her options and would rather direct her energy into Christmas stuff rather than having s*x with OP. She's not laboring under the delusion that all of this other stuff is required. She just isn't that into OP. Whether he chooses to help her, reason with her, or belittle her is up to OP.

I’m guessing the rest of OP’s marriage isn’t great. I cannot imagine extending myself so much at Christmas —as an empty beater — not to want to have sex with my husband over the whole holiday period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m a woman. I was describing myself. I also don’t think neurotic is a bad word, so I think there is some miscommunication there. I just mean it to mean a normal person. Like not a personality disordered or psychotic person. A normal, neurotic person.

And I didn’t say not to make people comfortable.
I said to pick three things that are valuable to you, put effort into those, then let the rest slide. If special traditions and a comfortable home are two things that are valuable to you, then you have one more to go!

What I said was not to have 25 things that are the most valuable thing to you. You will make yourself crazy. You can say that special traditions and a cozy home and decorating for Christmas are important.

But then you can’t also say that incorporating religion and seeing all of your extended family and hosting an annual party and making Christmas cards and getting perfect presents for everyone you know and putting up lights and baking and on and on is also important. Pick a few things and phone the rest in.

For a lot of people, these special things are the entire point of life and the reason you work hard and sacrifice and create relationships the rest of the year. Picking 3 things is like saying I only want to live for 1/3rd of my life expectancy. DCUM people can be such sad robots about socializing and holidays.

Where is all of your energy going? Just to work and home renovations?

I think that there are certain things worth getting tired and overextended for. I’m glad that my family of origin and my friends agree. It’s tragic that I married a family that feels differently and would rather sit on their phones and wait to die.

Great! Overextend yourself, but recognize no one else wants to hear it year after year. Also? Why spend time with the in-law when you are so contemptuous- they probably like you much either.