Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

Op here. I am insecure sometimes! I think it's normal and that no one is 100% confident at all times. I don't think people universally dislike me and do have friends. And I've been in therapy for years and am always "working on my own issues." I think I'm actually above average in being aware of my own BS and working towards sorting it out.

None of that changes that I just don't really like people with this personality type and would like more opportunities to spend time with other people without being around people like this, who yes, do tend to flare my existing insecurities.

But thank you for your input.

So much could be solved if you could say no with a smile on your face.

It's true have to learn to say no to people like this. But this personality will not stop at that no. A defining characteristic of a person like this is that they will keep pushing even when they meet resistance.

So you have to say no (with our without the smile) over and over. The will "offer" a form of help and you will say no. Then they will deliver the help anyway, even though you said no clearly, and you will have to directly reject the help. They will argue with you and say things like "but I already bought it" or "that doesn't make sense, at this point there's nothing to lose." You have to stand strong in the face of their efforts to persuade, coerce, and manipulate you into doing what you want. You might have to do this in public, in front of other people (they may choose a public venue specifically as a form coercion, the way an overbearing boyfriend might do a very public proposal to coerce a yes). They may enlist their husband, your husband, anyone they can find to help convince you. I have had women like this contact my mother, without asking me first, and pressure her to pressure me to do something I've already said no to. If you have kids, they will 100% enlist your kids in trying to get you to do things you have already said no to.

We are not talking about normal people who offer things or ask for things and if you say no, they hear it and accept it. We are talking specifically about people who will push, push, push to get their way or arrange the world to their liking and will view a no as simply a problem to be solved before they get what they want.

That is why the goal is often to avoid these types altogether. Because they don't respect boundaries, don't listen, don't view you as an adult who should be in charge of her own life. They see you as a project or a means to an end and the things you say or do are incidental and only matter insofar as it is information they can use to get you to do what they want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol

This is internalized misogyny, and you are giving the gay guys a pass because they are men.

It is exhausting, agreed. This is really hard. If you ask yourself, constantly, what would my reaction be if Diane was Don, it can be both depressing and illuminating.

I will look into that…I give them a pass because the ones I have met are fun! And the energy is different…it’s lighter…the smallest things can become so deep with some women.

The energy is different and lighter because your expectations of their behavior are lower. They sense it and you sense it, and it changes the dynamic.

Things become deep with women because behavior expectations for women are so harsh and the consequences of violating those social norms are so much worse for women.

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, the competitive DC sanctimommy. Always first to kiss an ass if there are social points involved, will humblebrag you to death, and frequently "helpful" in ways that are nothing but condescending twattery.

How to avoid: Go somewhere volunteers are expected to perform a meaningful service, not just show off. The PTA is obviously out (PTAs are known mommymartyr showcases). Try sorting clothes at A Wider Circle or serving food at SOME (So Others Might Eat). Don't go anywhere the volunteers are there to specifically help those in leadership/power positions (again, think of the PTA and whose asses are getting kissed). Avoid anywhere that's a photo op, or somewhere volunteers get recognition beyond a simple "thank you".

But honestly? In this area, they're hard to avoid. Your best bet is to learn to ignore, but reserve an ice-cold burn or cut for when they pipe off. Understand that they're going to talk about you anyway and be willing to weaponize it. Calling them out just calls in their flying monkeys. You have to 'bless your heart' them, excessively, in public, in a way that points out what fake-ass nonsense they are full of. Do it right, and they'll start kissing YOUR ass, just to shut you up.

I don't know how to avoid them but I know how to get them to avoid me. I am on the autistic spectrum and spent the first five years of my son's life living abroad in the developing world with him, so I pulled into Vienna Va. with a little kid dressed in thrifted clothes who had never had a private swimming lesson, joined a competitive chess team, participated in mommy and me kiddie gymnastics etc. I proceeded to put my foot in my mouth at every possible opportunity. The first was when I admitted I had literally never heard of Virginia Tech, I confused special education and gifted classes, when someone was humble bragging about the special travel soccer team their kid was on, I was so clueless that I thought "He's playing on the Nationals" meant the kid was like nationally ranked or something. There's nothing quite like reacting in the wrong way and reacting in such a bizarre way that they literally have no response I highly recommend it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

OP here. We are not "kind of" middle class. We are middle class. We own a tiny home we bought for under 500k when rates were really low and cannot afford to fix it up or to move. We have extremely normal jobs with no power or prestige. Public schools, modest backgrounds. I work in a field with a lot of jobs in the DC area due to the federal government and all the universities, which is how we wound up here, but it's not a glamorous field at all.

My perception is that a lot of the people I encounter like this only make slightly more than we do, but either have a spouse making a lot or have money from family. We don't live in NW DC or one of the pricy suburbs. I assume this issue is even worse in those communities, but I'll never find out because we could never afford to live there, nor will we ever send our kids to any of these elite privates (or any private school) or get them involved in any super expensive EC. But even in our very middle class existence, I encounter people like this a lot.

It must be you. I posted upthread and live in CCDC and haven't encountered this dynamic in any friendships or relationships.

It’s not just your neighbors though. It’s also professional and activity driven. For example, I meet this type of woman preparing for her triathlon as she trains at Wilson pool.

IDK. I guess I'm not bothered by someone training for a triathalon. I'm not sure how this impacts me in any way.

Here let me help. The impact starts when she starts engaging you. In the lane, telling you where you are permitted to swim and not swim. In the locker room. In the checkin line.

Whether i can handle this situation is immaterial. The point is that they exist, sorted by zip code, profession, activity, and more

Anonymous wrote:Avoid any activities or groups that are about self-improvement or any competition.

This will not work. These women are like this at birthdays, girls night out, family picnics, etc. They don't have rest. Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

Op here. I am insecure sometimes! I think it's normal and that no one is 100% confident at all times. I don't think people universally dislike me and do have friends. And I've been in therapy for years and am always "working on my own issues." I think I'm actually above average in being aware of my own BS and working towards sorting it out.

None of that changes that I just don't really like people with this personality type and would like more opportunities to spend time with other people without being around people like this, who yes, do tend to flare my existing insecurities.

But thank you for your input.

So much could be solved if you could say no with a smile on your face.

Avoid any activities or groups that are about self-improvement or any competition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

Op here. I am insecure sometimes! I think it's normal and that no one is 100% confident at all times. I don't think people universally dislike me and do have friends. And I've been in therapy for years and am always "working on my own issues." I think I'm actually above average in being aware of my own BS and working towards sorting it out.

None of that changes that I just don't really like people with this personality type and would like more opportunities to spend time with other people without being around people like this, who yes, do tend to flare my existing insecurities.

But thank you for your input.

DP.

These women are insecure too which is why the try to control everything. And others don't call them out because they are grateful for all the work/organizing these Queen Bees do. So it becomes a cycle.

I have a family member who is like this. She is one of my favorite people now, but I couldn't be in the same room with her for years. She has good intentions with anxiety. A friend of hers calmed her down by challenging her everytime she caused a scene when things were not exactly as she wanted them to be. But that friend only got her respect because the friend was able to "create order" without the drama and terror. If anyone else tried to challenge her, she'd point out that they were relaxed because it was so much easier to be undisciplined and unprinicipled. Once she found someone who took charge like she did but remained calm, respectful and kind, she got it and adjusted her behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol

This is internalized misogyny, and you are giving the gay guys a pass because they are men.

It is exhausting, agreed. This is really hard. If you ask yourself, constantly, what would my reaction be if Diane was Don, it can be both depressing and illuminating.

I will look into that…I give them a pass because the ones I have met are fun! And the energy is different…it’s lighter…the smallest things can become so deep with some women.

I didn't like these women and didn't want to become one. I focused on coaching sports for my girls and made great friends with all of the coach dads. Still friends many years later and have moved across the country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol

This is internalized misogyny, and you are giving the gay guys a pass because they are men.

It is exhausting, agreed. This is really hard. If you ask yourself, constantly, what would my reaction be if Diane was Don, it can be both depressing and illuminating.

+1. If a woman tried to tightened PP up on her style, she will find them pushy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

Op here. I am insecure sometimes! I think it's normal and that no one is 100% confident at all times. I don't think people universally dislike me and do have friends. And I've been in therapy for years and am always "working on my own issues." I think I'm actually above average in being aware of my own BS and working towards sorting it out.

None of that changes that I just don't really like people with this personality type and would like more opportunities to spend time with other people without being around people like this, who yes, do tend to flare my existing insecurities.

But thank you for your input.

Pick a few things that you like and start a community around that. Then you get to set the tone and decide who the cool kids are. This is the only way to put a lid on their behavior. When one of them shows up and starts being overbearing, set the tone and shut them down forcefully. Tell them you are not that kind of group.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol

This is internalized misogyny, and you are giving the gay guys a pass because they are men.

It is exhausting, agreed. This is really hard. If you ask yourself, constantly, what would my reaction be if Diane was Don, it can be both depressing and illuminating.

Parents who think you are God's gift to earth probably do wonders for your confidence....
My mother loves me but definitely sees me as highly flawed and my father doesn't even like me really. So I'm always starting from that point of "am I just a fundamentally unlikable person?"

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

Op here. I am insecure sometimes! I think it's normal and that no one is 100% confident at all times. I don't think people universally dislike me and do have friends. And I've been in therapy for years and am always "working on my own issues." I think I'm actually above average in being aware of my own BS and working towards sorting it out.

None of that changes that I just don't really like people with this personality type and would like more opportunities to spend time with other people without being around people like this, who yes, do tend to flare my existing insecurities.

But thank you for your input.