Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a bipolar brother. It is very difficult as a family member. I would still never cut him off and I see him every holiday.

My MIL isn’t bipolar and still drives me nuts. She also gives us silent treatment and I would be glad not to ever see her.

You suck it up and let her see her grandchildren. This isn’t about you, OP. She is mentally ill.

My friend got divorced over her BP SIL. If my husband made me choose between him and my brother, I would choose my brother. Your poor DH having to deal with his mentally ill mother and non understanding unsympathetic wife.

That’s not fair. I’ve been sympathetic and accommodating for twenty years up until this point. I realize that I have to interact with his mother, but I’m at my wits end. I’m tired, and frustrated, and honestly mad that she’s starting to pull the same thing on my children. No one is “keeping her” from her grandchildren, but if she chooses not to speak with us for months at a time, the natural consequence of that is that she won’t see her grandchildren.

I just wish I had the proper tools to deal with her when she acts this way.

—OP

You do have the tools. She can come sit and observe on holidays. You can’t make her be warm Hallmark Grandma and that is fine.

I guess I’m just curious why we all engage in this facade? It’s fun for no one. DH is miserable, the kids are uncomfortable, and I’m just always left shrugging my shoulders. Why this dance of pretending, year after year?

—OP

Pp with bipolar brother and MIL I can’t stand. Most recently, I have tried to see my family and MIL on days around holiday but not exact day. I can give my brother gifts or see MIL a week after. Both our families are not local so it is easier to do this.

MIL often upsets and says things to upset DH and BIlL. I don’t think anyone actually enjoys her company. It is family obligation.

For my bipolar brother, I’m all he’s got. When he is stable, he is great. When he isn’t, we try to stay calm and wait for him to stabilize. It is stressful for all. He is my brother and I love him.

I want to think my kids learn from us. They are watching us and know family is priority.

It really depends on the severity of the disease, PP. My best friend has had to distance herself considerably from her sister with a cyclical mood disorder (not sure if it's bipolar or something else), because the outbursts were just too violent and she refuses to expose her child to that. Occasionally my friend goes to visit her sister by herself, always in a neutral location where she leave at any moment.

My late FIL had bipolar disorder that went untreated for many years, and was prone to anger outbursts that made family life difficult for his wife and kids. I only knew him when he was well medicated and never saw the anger, but did see his verbal diarrhea, depression and lethargy. His was taken care of by his family until the end, despite years of trauma, because I think he knew how to express love in between his bad phases, and the worst of it had happened decades before, so his wife and grown children understood that he had "improved" with time.

But the most important thing to remember is that you cannot ask someone else to bear the burden of connection with such a diseased mind. YOU can choose, for yourself, to remain in contact. Therefore, OP's husband can visit his mother if he wants, but he cannot force his wife to welcome her into the family home.

Pp here. DH is very understanding and sympathetic to my BIL. He knows my brother’s mood affects me greatly. If my brother is having an episode, I don’t bring my kids around him. My oldest is a teen and is a really mature and empathic kid. He actually tells ME to be more understanding of my brother and how he can’t help it when my brother upsets me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a bipolar brother. It is very difficult as a family member. I would still never cut him off and I see him every holiday.

My MIL isn’t bipolar and still drives me nuts. She also gives us silent treatment and I would be glad not to ever see her.

You suck it up and let her see her grandchildren. This isn’t about you, OP. She is mentally ill.

My friend got divorced over her BP SIL. If my husband made me choose between him and my brother, I would choose my brother. Your poor DH having to deal with his mentally ill mother and non understanding unsympathetic wife.

That’s not fair. I’ve been sympathetic and accommodating for twenty years up until this point. I realize that I have to interact with his mother, but I’m at my wits end. I’m tired, and frustrated, and honestly mad that she’s starting to pull the same thing on my children. No one is “keeping her” from her grandchildren, but if she chooses not to speak with us for months at a time, the natural consequence of that is that she won’t see her grandchildren.

I just wish I had the proper tools to deal with her when she acts this way.

—OP

You do have the tools. She can come sit and observe on holidays. You can’t make her be warm Hallmark Grandma and that is fine.

I guess I’m just curious why we all engage in this facade? It’s fun for no one. DH is miserable, the kids are uncomfortable, and I’m just always left shrugging my shoulders. Why this dance of pretending, year after year?

—OP

Pp with bipolar brother and MIL I can’t stand. Most recently, I have tried to see my family and MIL on days around holiday but not exact day. I can give my brother gifts or see MIL a week after. Both our families are not local so it is easier to do this.

MIL often upsets and says things to upset DH and BIlL. I don’t think anyone actually enjoys her company. It is family obligation.

For my bipolar brother, I’m all he’s got. When he is stable, he is great. When he isn’t, we try to stay calm and wait for him to stabilize. It is stressful for all. He is my brother and I love him.

I want to think my kids learn from us. They are watching us and know family is priority.

It really depends on the severity of the disease, PP. My best friend has had to distance herself considerably from her sister with a cyclical mood disorder (not sure if it's bipolar or something else), because the outbursts were just too violent and she refuses to expose her child to that. Occasionally my friend goes to visit her sister by herself, always in a neutral location where she leave at any moment.

My late FIL had bipolar disorder that went untreated for many years, and was prone to anger outbursts that made family life difficult for his wife and kids. I only knew him when he was well medicated and never saw the anger, but did see his verbal diarrhea, depression and lethargy. His was taken care of by his family until the end, despite years of trauma, because I think he knew how to express love in between his bad phases, and the worst of it had happened decades before, so his wife and grown children understood that he had "improved" with time.

But the most important thing to remember is that you cannot ask someone else to bear the burden of connection with such a diseased mind. YOU can choose, for yourself, to remain in contact. Therefore, OP's husband can visit his mother if he wants, but he cannot force his wife to welcome her into the family home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been married nearly 20 years. My MIL has long-standing BPD-type behaviors, victim mentality, crying to manipulate, and a pattern of “discarding” my husband several times a year. DH has always had a distant, strained relationship with her, but he still tries to pretend things are “normal,” especially around holidays and birthdays.

This past summer, after one of their typical disagreements, she initiated no-contact with him, and by extension, with me and our kids. Then, right before our child’s birthday, she tried to come back and blamed us for not seeing the kids all summer. When that didn’t work, she cut us off again. That was my breaking point. You can’t repeatedly abandon your grandchildren and then complain that you didn’t get to see them.

Now she wants “in” again for Christmas. I’m done. I understand DH is conditioned to accept this cycle, but I’m not willing to let our kids be dragged into this cycle, or to think this is normal, or to tolerate the holiday tension and eggshell-walking anymore. If she chooses to disappear for months at a time, she doesn’t get to reappear at her convenience.

How do I talk to DH about this in a way that’s firm but fair? This is the third Christmas she’s pulled this. It’s also the second time she’s pulled this before one of our kids’ birthdays. I need to set a boundary, but I want to approach it constructively.

You said she likes to be around for holidays and birthdays. You said your husband likes to play normal for holidays/birthdays. Why not see her then? Ignore any gaslighting; what difference does it make? If your husband likes to play normal (and this is his normal; it’s not really playing) at these times, why do you have to “set a boundary” or do anything? Tell your kids grandma is flaky, but she’s doing the best you can; they’ll figure things out on their own. I don’t get why you need to assert some sort of power over this. And your poor husband caught between the two of you; why can’t he just have the relationship he already had with his mom before you came along?

As a daughter and mother, I refuse to agree that it’s normal to make a grand stand proclamation that you refuse to speak to your child for months at a time, 2-3 times a year. I simply can’t believe this is typical or healthy or normal!

—OP

Obviously not typical, but you’re not going to get typical, right? When she makes a grand proclamation, just let her know that she’s welcome when she’s ready. You’ll know that this will likely be before a birthday/holiday. If she comes back and says it was your fault, you can ignore it or you could have some innocuous stock phrase, like “sorry you feel that way.” That’s it! Problem solved (I know you won’t actually do this, but you could simply do….nothing.)

This sounds fair, honestly.

—OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you need to do anything. A lot of kids don't see their grandparents consistently and only on major holidays. Your kids don't need to know all the details of every conversation and drama between your MIL and you / your DH. Keep it away from them and when you see grandma you see her. If she is as horrible as you say, I doubt the kids care that they don't see her more often.

See her around the holidays and ignore her the rest of the time (or be ignored by her the rest of the time).

Trying to turn this into a confrontation is only going to backfire on you.

The only thing that bothers me is the awkward tension she brings. The kids definitely feel it and we all walk on eggshells. This is the thing I’m tired of and don’t really know how to navigate.

—OP

Talk to them about it. You all stop walking on eggshells . . . she WANTS you to walk on eggshells. "If grammy gets grumpy, just avoid her and do your thing."

My mom's mother was like this (worse than you describe, honestly). We just learned to ignore it when around her. My dad was really good at not giving in to her drama, and she pretty much left him alone.

I’m genuinely curious what that looks like; can you describe what interactions look like? My MIL will come, won’t speak to anyone, will sit in a corner chair and twirl the ends of her shirt, speak in hushed murmurs, etc. None of us knows what to do with that. I’d love to hear your experience. Nothing we do or say breaks her out of it, so we all just watch awkwardly.

—OP

NP but if she did that I’d probably ignore her. Like id keep cooking Christmas Eve dinner and I’d keep helping the kids with a holiday craft. I’d occasionally say something like “we are decorating cookies in the dining room , MIL, if you want to join us!” and then ignore whatever it is she mumbles and keep decorating cookies. “We are heading out to walk the dog, just me and older DS, if you want to join us!” and then start putting coats and shoes on and go, with or without her. Like basically just pretend she is a goldfish that you tell what it is you’re about to do. If she tries to huff at the end of the day and say she feels unwelcome you can say “I invited you to decorate cookies, and to take a walk, and to help with lunch prep, and to come watch Elf in the family room with us, and you chose not to. Sorry you feel unwelcome though. See you tomorrow.”

I think it’s important to continue to invite/ offer while she is there, for your kids to see that, and also as a buffer for if the kids overhear her saying everyone ignores her and doesn’t like her or whatever. Because you can give objective examples that you’ve tried to include her. This will help your kids not feel bad when she says that and wonder if maybe they aren’t doing enough to make her feel welcome. And if your kids start to express that they feel bad or guilty then stop inviting her, put your foot down. Their mental health is more important

My mother used to not get along with my dad’s family and would do this when I was a kid. She’d take my younger sibling and announce she was “going for a walk”. It was honestly so strange. Everyone knew why, and it felt so rude to me, even as a child. I don’t think this is the way to handle things, honestly. My mother should have just sent us with our dad. OP should just send her husband and no longer host.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you need to do anything. A lot of kids don't see their grandparents consistently and only on major holidays. Your kids don't need to know all the details of every conversation and drama between your MIL and you / your DH. Keep it away from them and when you see grandma you see her. If she is as horrible as you say, I doubt the kids care that they don't see her more often.

See her around the holidays and ignore her the rest of the time (or be ignored by her the rest of the time).

Trying to turn this into a confrontation is only going to backfire on you.

The only thing that bothers me is the awkward tension she brings. The kids definitely feel it and we all walk on eggshells. This is the thing I’m tired of and don’t really know how to navigate.

—OP

Talk to them about it. You all stop walking on eggshells . . . she WANTS you to walk on eggshells. "If grammy gets grumpy, just avoid her and do your thing."

My mom's mother was like this (worse than you describe, honestly). We just learned to ignore it when around her. My dad was really good at not giving in to her drama, and she pretty much left him alone.

I’m genuinely curious what that looks like; can you describe what interactions look like? My MIL will come, won’t speak to anyone, will sit in a corner chair and twirl the ends of her shirt, speak in hushed murmurs, etc. None of us knows what to do with that. I’d love to hear your experience. Nothing we do or say breaks her out of it, so we all just watch awkwardly.

—OP

NP but if she did that I’d probably ignore her. Like id keep cooking Christmas Eve dinner and I’d keep helping the kids with a holiday craft. I’d occasionally say something like “we are decorating cookies in the dining room , MIL, if you want to join us!” and then ignore whatever it is she mumbles and keep decorating cookies. “We are heading out to walk the dog, just me and older DS, if you want to join us!” and then start putting coats and shoes on and go, with or without her. Like basically just pretend she is a goldfish that you tell what it is you’re about to do. If she tries to huff at the end of the day and say she feels unwelcome you can say “I invited you to decorate cookies, and to take a walk, and to help with lunch prep, and to come watch Elf in the family room with us, and you chose not to. Sorry you feel unwelcome though. See you tomorrow.”

I think it’s important to continue to invite/ offer while she is there, for your kids to see that, and also as a buffer for if the kids overhear her saying everyone ignores her and doesn’t like her or whatever. Because you can give objective examples that you’ve tried to include her. This will help your kids not feel bad when she says that and wonder if maybe they aren’t doing enough to make her feel welcome. And if your kids start to express that they feel bad or guilty then stop inviting her, put your foot down. Their mental health is more important

My mother used to not get along with my dad’s family and would do this when I was a kid. She’d take my younger sibling and announce she was “going for a walk”. It was honestly so strange. Everyone knew why, and it felt so rude to me, even as a child. I don’t think this is the way to handle things, honestly. My mother should have just sent us with our dad. OP should just send her husband and no longer host.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not abandonment if she never actually leaves or go no contact. I would treat pronouncements like this similar to when 5-6 year olds declare they are running away. It’s a way to say they are very upset when they don’t have the maturity/emotional health to manage hurt feelings more constructively. It’s up to you to decide whether she brings more good than not, but I definitely wouldn’t base anything from her “going no contact” since that doesn’t happen.

I hate these analogies. Yes, developmentally, if my 5 year old says she hates me and is going to run away, I am unbothered and I still cook her dinner and put her to bed with a kiss. My 68 year old MIL is not my 5 year old daughter. If she tells me she doesn’t like me and is going to not visit us for a few months until she can stand to be around me again, that’s not the same thing. At all. And I’m not going to put up with being treated that way by another adult who then comes crawling back and wanting things from me at Christmas. No.

Exactly. I feel it's only one or two posters who post continually about sucking it up - maybe they don't even read the OP. I would never do that in this scenario. You are entirely correct that parents accept behavior from a small child that they should not accept from anyone else.

I would put my foot down here and teach MIL consequences. Either she learns it, or she doesn't, but at least she's not in my house.

THIS! There was recently a post around Thanksgiving about, I think, a MIL complaining that she didn’t feel welcome or hosted properly and someone compared it to their child complaining to them that dinner didn’t taste good, as if it’s normal for adults to complain that the meal wasn’t good when being hosted in another’s home. That’s behavior we expect from children, not someone old enough to be a grandparent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe just let her come and go as she pleases but don't give in to the drama. Don't change plans for her, don't make special plans for her, and don't act like it's a big deal if and when she shows up. She's seeking attention and to upend your lives . . . don't give her oxygen.

During her “re-entry”, though, she acts like a wounded animal, cowering in corners and just acting generally uneasy, like someone may yell at her. It creates an incredibly uncomfortable situation, and my kids are old enough to pick up on the awkwardness. I don’t want every holiday to be shrouded in this tension. It’s not fair to them, or to us.

—OP

Let her come over and be awkward. You continue to do you, and you don't give in to her attention-seeking behavior. She wants you to argue with you, she wants to control your emotions, she wants you to ask her what's wrong. Don't.

+1

This is who she is. If your kids ask about it, just respond breezily, "oh, you know grandma, she's often weird when we haven't seen her in a while. Just leave her be" and go about your day.

But what does that look like when we are hosting just her? I feel obligated to sit with the family. What does “go about your day” look like in this instance, when she comes over (she’s local) and expects to celebrate the holiday? It feels rude to just leave the room, but I guess I don’t know what else to do!

—OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you need to do anything. A lot of kids don't see their grandparents consistently and only on major holidays. Your kids don't need to know all the details of every conversation and drama between your MIL and you / your DH. Keep it away from them and when you see grandma you see her. If she is as horrible as you say, I doubt the kids care that they don't see her more often.

See her around the holidays and ignore her the rest of the time (or be ignored by her the rest of the time).

Trying to turn this into a confrontation is only going to backfire on you.

The only thing that bothers me is the awkward tension she brings. The kids definitely feel it and we all walk on eggshells. This is the thing I’m tired of and don’t really know how to navigate.

—OP

Talk to them about it. You all stop walking on eggshells . . . she WANTS you to walk on eggshells. "If grammy gets grumpy, just avoid her and do your thing."

My mom's mother was like this (worse than you describe, honestly). We just learned to ignore it when around her. My dad was really good at not giving in to her drama, and she pretty much left him alone.

I’m genuinely curious what that looks like; can you describe what interactions look like? My MIL will come, won’t speak to anyone, will sit in a corner chair and twirl the ends of her shirt, speak in hushed murmurs, etc. None of us knows what to do with that. I’d love to hear your experience. Nothing we do or say breaks her out of it, so we all just watch awkwardly.

—OP

NP but if she did that I’d probably ignore her. Like id keep cooking Christmas Eve dinner and I’d keep helping the kids with a holiday craft. I’d occasionally say something like “we are decorating cookies in the dining room , MIL, if you want to join us!” and then ignore whatever it is she mumbles and keep decorating cookies. “We are heading out to walk the dog, just me and older DS, if you want to join us!” and then start putting coats and shoes on and go, with or without her. Like basically just pretend she is a goldfish that you tell what it is you’re about to do. If she tries to huff at the end of the day and say she feels unwelcome you can say “I invited you to decorate cookies, and to take a walk, and to help with lunch prep, and to come watch Elf in the family room with us, and you chose not to. Sorry you feel unwelcome though. See you tomorrow.”

I think it’s important to continue to invite/ offer while she is there, for your kids to see that, and also as a buffer for if the kids overhear her saying everyone ignores her and doesn’t like her or whatever. Because you can give objective examples that you’ve tried to include her. This will help your kids not feel bad when she says that and wonder if maybe they aren’t doing enough to make her feel welcome. And if your kids start to express that they feel bad or guilty then stop inviting her, put your foot down. Their mental health is more important

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not abandonment if she never actually leaves or go no contact. I would treat pronouncements like this similar to when 5-6 year olds declare they are running away. It’s a way to say they are very upset when they don’t have the maturity/emotional health to manage hurt feelings more constructively. It’s up to you to decide whether she brings more good than not, but I definitely wouldn’t base anything from her “going no contact” since that doesn’t happen.

I hate these analogies. Yes, developmentally, if my 5 year old says she hates me and is going to run away, I am unbothered and I still cook her dinner and put her to bed with a kiss. My 68 year old MIL is not my 5 year old daughter. If she tells me she doesn’t like me and is going to not visit us for a few months until she can stand to be around me again, that’s not the same thing. At all. And I’m not going to put up with being treated that way by another adult who then comes crawling back and wanting things from me at Christmas. No.

Exactly. I feel it's only one or two posters who post continually about sucking it up - maybe they don't even read the OP. I would never do that in this scenario. You are entirely correct that parents accept behavior from a small child that they should not accept from anyone else.

I would put my foot down here and teach MIL consequences. Either she learns it, or she doesn't, but at least she's not in my house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you need to do anything. A lot of kids don't see their grandparents consistently and only on major holidays. Your kids don't need to know all the details of every conversation and drama between your MIL and you / your DH. Keep it away from them and when you see grandma you see her. If she is as horrible as you say, I doubt the kids care that they don't see her more often.

See her around the holidays and ignore her the rest of the time (or be ignored by her the rest of the time).

Trying to turn this into a confrontation is only going to backfire on you.

The only thing that bothers me is the awkward tension she brings. The kids definitely feel it and we all walk on eggshells. This is the thing I’m tired of and don’t really know how to navigate.

—OP

Talk to them about it. You all stop walking on eggshells . . . she WANTS you to walk on eggshells. "If grammy gets grumpy, just avoid her and do your thing."

My mom's mother was like this (worse than you describe, honestly). We just learned to ignore it when around her. My dad was really good at not giving in to her drama, and she pretty much left him alone.

I’m genuinely curious what that looks like; can you describe what interactions look like? My MIL will come, won’t speak to anyone, will sit in a corner chair and twirl the ends of her shirt, speak in hushed murmurs, etc. None of us knows what to do with that. I’d love to hear your experience. Nothing we do or say breaks her out of it, so we all just watch awkwardly.

—OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not abandonment if she never actually leaves or go no contact. I would treat pronouncements like this similar to when 5-6 year olds declare they are running away. It’s a way to say they are very upset when they don’t have the maturity/emotional health to manage hurt feelings more constructively. It’s up to you to decide whether she brings more good than not, but I definitely wouldn’t base anything from her “going no contact” since that doesn’t happen.

I hate these analogies. Yes, developmentally, if my 5 year old says she hates me and is going to run away, I am unbothered and I still cook her dinner and put her to bed with a kiss. My 68 year old MIL is not my 5 year old daughter. If she tells me she doesn’t like me and is going to not visit us for a few months until she can stand to be around me again, that’s not the same thing. At all. And I’m not going to put up with being treated that way by another adult who then comes crawling back and wanting things from me at Christmas. No.