Anonymous wrote:Reputable economists disagree with this. It is stupid.

Anonymous wrote:What? We (fam of 4) live outside of DC and our HHI is 160. We have no debt other than mortgage, own two Subarus, never feel stretched too thin to buy any expensive groceries or toys or kitchen gadgets we might want or need, and travel to Europe every summer. I highly doubt that we are just barely over the poverty line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4pySw6b

This makes a lot of sense. DCUM would probably say more like 250K, but the world is catching up with DCUM.

Anyone who cannot raise a family on 50K a year is just wasting money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

After childcare, housing, healthcare and taxes this family still has $78k to spend. Not poor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

That’s not poverty. That’s living an honest life with two cars and an apartment with healthcare and food. Trips to Va wine country and Major cities are cheap ways to have ‘vacations’ like camping. Amazing that poverty is now considered having all those things.

100%. This thread was shocking to read. Since when is summer camp or expensive kid activities an essential? People look at how the UMC lives and assumes that means the MC gets those things too and if not, that means they’re poverty level.

I lived in "secret poverty" growing up. My dad was in an out of work and my mom did part time stuff. They didnt own a home so we moved a few times so they could find better rent. We weren't starving by any means but we had a strict budget and by the end of the week there was usually only bread and peanut butter left. Me and my siblings never got money for yearbooks or book fair or extras. We didnt go to the movies or the mall or anywhere that had an entrance fee. We did sometimes play sports so i guess they budgeted that in or got a deal or something. We spent a lot of time at parks and playgrounds. We wore hand me downs. I never had a car. We went camping or to visit grandparents for vacation. We did not go to the doctor or dentist.

I was fed and cared for and life was mostly fine. I was smart and had friends. I played outside and went to the library on weekends.

But in retrospect we were really poor and i missed out on a lot. I dont know their actual income but it wasn't enough to happily raise a family. Im thinking this $140K number is kind of similar to that for today. I am so glad I can raise my kids differently.

This is considered a good life in the majority of countries around the world though. You don’t need all that extraneous s***. Americans are so spoiled

This is why I roll my eyes whenever someone talks about poverty in the US. You only feel poor because you’re comparing yourself to others who have more, but you’re not objectively poor. If 90% of the country lived like this you would have a completely different outlook. It’s all relative

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

That’s not poverty. That’s living an honest life with two cars and an apartment with healthcare and food. Trips to Va wine country and Major cities are cheap ways to have ‘vacations’ like camping. Amazing that poverty is now considered having all those things.

100%. This thread was shocking to read. Since when is summer camp or expensive kid activities an essential? People look at how the UMC lives and assumes that means the MC gets those things too and if not, that means they’re poverty level.

I lived in "secret poverty" growing up. My dad was in an out of work and my mom did part time stuff. They didnt own a home so we moved a few times so they could find better rent. We weren't starving by any means but we had a strict budget and by the end of the week there was usually only bread and peanut butter left. Me and my siblings never got money for yearbooks or book fair or extras. We didnt go to the movies or the mall or anywhere that had an entrance fee. We did sometimes play sports so i guess they budgeted that in or got a deal or something. We spent a lot of time at parks and playgrounds. We wore hand me downs. I never had a car. We went camping or to visit grandparents for vacation. We did not go to the doctor or dentist.

I was fed and cared for and life was mostly fine. I was smart and had friends. I played outside and went to the library on weekends.

But in retrospect we were really poor and i missed out on a lot. I dont know their actual income but it wasn't enough to happily raise a family. Im thinking this $140K number is kind of similar to that for today. I am so glad I can raise my kids differently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

Anonymous wrote:

We (fam of 4) live outside of DC and our HHI is 160.

Live outside of DC as in the suburbs, or outside the DC area? When did you buy your house? Because this is a key difference - even the lower priced DC suburbs are prohibitively expensive, unless you bought a lower priced house or townhouse when rates were very low and are paying $2000 a month for housing.

Anonymous wrote:He really wasn't calculating it as a poverty level. More of a solid middle class level in a metro area.

I don't agree with the number, but I think the high cost of child care really screws up other poverty level numbers.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get the backlash to this article. Supporting a family of four on $140k is nearly impossible

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we still understand what poverty is? Or no?

Having lived in real (deep south) poverty, I know what poverty is. 140K/yr is not it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:140K can be rich in DC depending on your situation.

For example my kid lives in a rent controlled apt in Adam Morgan.

The women who is on site manager has two kids and is married. She does the apt showings, makes sure work is done by porter and staff. But the building is old and runs like clockwork so not really a full time job. Just has to be around for stuff like when an apt is is free to be shown and check work is actually done.

She does it for free and in return she gets a free two bedroom apartment, utilities and parking included. Kids school is up the block she walks them to and from school.

If her husband made 140K she be in my opinion rich.

A dual income couple both in the office with childcare and a mortgage at 140K would be poor.

That is exactly his point. In his article, he says the poverty line for a dual-income couple with 2 kids who need childcare and a mortgage. This is pasted from his article:

"Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773
Housing: $23,267
Food: $14,717
Transportation: $14,828
Healthcare: $10,567
Other essentials: $21,857
Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500."

That’s not poverty. That’s living an honest life with two cars and an apartment with healthcare and food. Trips to Va wine country and Major cities are cheap ways to have ‘vacations’ like camping. Amazing that poverty is now considered having all those things.

100%. This thread was shocking to read. Since when is summer camp or expensive kid activities an essential? People look at how the UMC lives and assumes that means the MC gets those things too and if not, that means they’re poverty level.

Summer camp is 100% a necessity when both parents work outside the house. What else would you do with the kids during the summer if you are at the office?

That’s a great question, have you ever looked into it yourself? Or did you assume because everyone else does it, it’s a necessity? There’s options that aren’t summer camp and aren’t prohibitively expensive.

The problem with this area is we’ve got a lot of $$ floating around which skews what the working class and middle class view as normal. Summer camp for the entire summer has ALWAYS been an UMC and wealthy luxury.

The normal MC kids get maybe a week here or there and that’s it. The rest of the summer is a patchwork of time with grandparents (if they’re around / involved), spending time on their own if old enough, daycare, or paying a local family with a SAHP to watch your kids too.

Anonymous wrote:Do we still understand what poverty is? Or no?