I never thought it was a big deal and happily married a 1st gen man from immigrant parents. I thought most of our cultural values were actually the same, since I also had strict parents who valued saving money, education, etc.

I was so wrong. I'm in the process of getting a divorce which was instigated by my soon-to-be-former-DH. I think in hindsight I was accepted by his mom only because he didn't have other options and she was worried he would end up like his gay cousin or his autistic cousin, and she was relieved to have a win over her siblings.

What I didn't realize when I was dating him and in our marriage before kids was how much the expectations of his parents and culture informed his subconscious expectations for who I should be in our marriage and our family. DH and his family expected that once kids were involved, his role was to be a provider, and anything beyond that was my job, including supplementing our income with my own job. Only gradually did I hear little anecdotes here and there about his childhood, his parents' relationship, his dad's role, and observe his extended family interactions to see how these expectations were destroying our marriage.

Even though DH rejected many aspects of his upbringing when it was convenient, he fell comfortably into other patterns instilled by his family background, culture, and his gender role within that. He truly believes that a male adult should go to work and do whatever else he wants, and his perspective on childrearing is that a mom should do absolutely everything for her children so they can focus solely on school and their future career. He was angry at me for teaching the children how to clear a plate, prep a small meal, fold clothing out of the dryer, etc, and angry that I expected him to contribute to family and household life after he came home from work.

Dating in HS is one thing. But no matter how evolved you think a future partner might be and no matter how assimilated their family might be, you could always be fighting against cultural forces that could remain invisible to you until it's too late. I am so grateful for my children but regret my relationship and always will, but I regret marrying into a family that will never forgive me for not being a Good Chinese Girl.

My children are mixed race and straddle two different cultures so I'm not sure how I'll advise them because they're caught between generations and cultures and races. The irony is that as a white person I am the one managing their heritage language classes, cultural holidays, and cultural association participation, and I still am.

I am accepted by my in-laws because I am less weird than anyone else my DH brought home, and he was turning 30 so they were eager to make a deal.

Anonymous wrote:It's so funny how the bar gets lowered and lowered. My stepmother wanted her son to marry a Han Chinese girl who was Confucian Buddhist and well-educated, ideally from an old-money Beijing family, who was pretty and would bear sons. Then any Han Chinese girl who was educated and would bear sons. Then any Chinese girl who wasn't a total country bumpkin. Then any girl at all! Eventually he married (with an internet minister) a girl from Guangdong and they are child-free by choice.

I am the second wife. The first one was the right ethnicity and religion but the marriage imploded after two years. After that they lowered or broadened their standards, or something

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, none of you have/had first generation immigrant parents. The pressure was real in my house. Now, my parents couldn’t force me to marry within my religion bc of my age, but I did bc I wanted to and I found the right guy. 25 years and counting….

If your strong in your religion or care how your (eventual) kids are raised, it can very much matter. That doesn’t make anyone a racist.

I will continue to disagree with you. These folks are absolutely racist.

This happens in many communities with strong religious affiliation. Have you not met any Jewish families? While there are obviously inter-faith marriages, I know plenty of people who strongly discourage dating/marrying out of their faith. My friend's sister was disowned for marrying a non-Jew. For a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim, the non-Muslim has to agree to convert.

I could never be friends with someone who would disown their kids over this. But I very much doubt those people would want to be friends with me either.

I’m not Jewish but most of the Jews I know felt the pressure to marry a Jew or have their partner convert to Judaism.

I am from an immigrant family and born here. I married someone not from the same culture. When I meet new immigrants from that country, especially with young kids, I see them become stressed and I am certain they go home to talk - did you see her? Husband is American, kids don’t speak the language, she barely can anymore.

That’s ok. It’s overwhelming to feel like your family will lose its culture, no matter how happy you are to be here. But they will mostly figure it out as their kids get older - their kids’ happiness is what is important and they will be happy for their kids. That’s what happened with my parents. When I was 12, they would have said the same thing your kids’ friend’s did. But they changed as they understood what’s actually important. They never stood in the way of my happiness when it mattered.

Anonymous wrote:How do you force someone to be a doctor? If they don't get into medical school what are you going to do, ground them?

It happens. My friends son never wanted to be a physican. His parents spent every minute they could taking care of all his needs while he went to school. They cleaned his apartment did his laundry etc paid all his expenses even when he was making a salary as a resident. Age forty he quit. Now he works for his dad as a software coder. Lives in a condo. theirs. He is a very capable extremely intelligent guy. Yep they forced him.

How do you force someone to be a doctor? If they don't get into medical school what are you going to do, ground them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, none of you have/had first generation immigrant parents. The pressure was real in my house. Now, my parents couldn’t force me to marry within my religion bc of my age, but I did bc I wanted to and I found the right guy. 25 years and counting….

If your strong in your religion or care how your (eventual) kids are raised, it can very much matter. That doesn’t make anyone a racist.

I will continue to disagree with you. These folks are absolutely racist.

This happens in many communities with strong religious affiliation. Have you not met any Jewish families? While there are obviously inter-faith marriages, I know plenty of people who strongly discourage dating/marrying out of their faith. My friend's sister was disowned for marrying a non-Jew. For a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim, the non-Muslim has to agree to convert.

I could never be friends with someone who would disown their kids over this. But I very much doubt those people would want to be friends with me either.

It's so funny how the bar gets lowered and lowered. My stepmother wanted her son to marry a Han Chinese girl who was Confucian Buddhist and well-educated, ideally from an old-money Beijing family, who was pretty and would bear sons. Then any Han Chinese girl who was educated and would bear sons. Then any Chinese girl who wasn't a total country bumpkin. Then any girl at all! Eventually he married (with an internet minister) a girl from Guangdong and they are child-free by choice.

I mean, it's standard for most first gen immigrants. My immigrant South Asian parents used to say this all the time, set the expectation since we were kids. Of course, no dating in high school.

Once we went to college, working, et, they had no control. 1/3 married a South Asian person (but not at all from the same part of India, culturally very different), 2/3 married non-Indians. They had to get used to all 3 spouses, it took a second, but they adjusted and welcomed all three. I think a lot of it is just talk - from their perspective, sure, why not guide kids in a direction they prefer? Maybe it would work! It's the same way they sort of encouraged all the kids to be doctors, but they weren't actually going to force anyone to do anything. I never felt like I let them down by not being one. Only rarely do I see a family who actually follows through on any of this, and those families are nuts!

Once my sister hit 40 and was unmarried, my parents were all to happy to embrace any kind, decent human being who loved her. In hindsight, I'm sure my parents regretted putting their religious and ethnic preferences over the happiness of their daughter because my sister had a great love in her 20s whom she turned down in marriage in order to please mom and dad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest struggles I've seen was when a first gen kid married a person nominally of their culture and religion, but the person was a recent immigrant and was much more modern about it. The parents had kind of kept their culture of origin the same, like it was at their time of immigration in the 1970s, and much of their peer group had too. But the place of origin itself had not stayed the same, so the new wife wasn't doing their version of the culture. Very weird dynamic because they thought it would work well but it really didn't.

Was this an Indian American "boy" who was hoping to marry a nice Indian "girl", just like his mom, but thought all the Indian American raised girls were too independent? Hahahah! (Indian American "girl" who was the bad example in our community because I went far away for college and didn't get married until I was in my late 30s).


Anyway -my mom isn't Indian, but acclimatized so well that the other Indian aunties would complain to her when their sons were engaged to white women.

They would have preferred I married someone they could relate to more, but didn't insist.

A lot of my peers growing up weren't "allowed" to date unless it was for marriage and then only Indian (and the right kind) - maybe 25% followed thru with that?

Some parents asserted control via money - especially after college. Which frankly, at that point, I see it as part of the deal - we'll cover your car payment and luxury apartment - you maintain our family status.

Well, she is a nice girl, but she's a girl who grew up in their country in the 2000s and 2010s and has culture and opinions accordingly. Her family is of the same religion but not especially conservative. She is exactly what this boy thought he was getting, because they dated and knew each other well before marrying. She 's *not* what the boy's parents naively thought they would get, because they were hoping for someone the same age as their son but whose culture was stuck in the 1970s and 1980s like theirs is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Allow" is not a word that fits in this sentence. Adults marry. Adults do not need or get permission to do so, other than the occasional, traditional, performative "asking parent's blessing," but that is not the same as "permission."

With all due respect, do you understand your view is shaped by viewing this issue through your own cultural lens? That too, comes with unique biases and challenges.

But what are you going to actually do about it? If they marry, they marry. You can yell at them. You can withhold your money or your presence, you can kick them out of the house if they live with you. You can become estranged. You can refuse to meet your grandchildren, if that's what you're into. But you can't stop them from getting married if they want to get married anyway. That's what people mean when they say they don't need your permission. The marriage is legally valid whether the parents generation agrees to it or not.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, none of you have/had first generation immigrant parents. The pressure was real in my house. Now, my parents couldn’t force me to marry within my religion bc of my age, but I did bc I wanted to and I found the right guy. 25 years and counting….

If your strong in your religion or care how your (eventual) kids are raised, it can very much matter. That doesn’t make anyone a racist.

💯

You don’t get it because your parents aren’t immigrants. I’m second generation and my parents would have preferred if we married someone from the same culture. None of us did and they accepted our spouses. 25 years into a marriage, it certainly would have made so many things easier if my sister and I did but no regrets on that. My husband will still never quite get certain things, even after being in the family after all of these years. But maybe it’s that way in any marriage.