Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

I notice that religious people with deep knowledge of the Bible often criticize other people, who may also have deep knowledge of the Bible, but interpret it differently.

These days, there are also lots of atheists with deep knowledge of the Bible, because they acquired it when they were religious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

Very few actual verses are being discussed here and I suspect the people discussing the verses about slavery have not actually read them beyond the blog post posted earlier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

I notice that religious people with deep knowledge of the Bible often criticize other people, who may also have deep knowledge of the Bible, but interpret it differently.

These days, there are also lots of atheists with deep knowledge of the Bible, because they acquired it when they were religious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

So some kinds of slavery are…defensible?

Oh yeah, all kinds of things are defensible if you take the bible as god's word and the earth's truth. Kill your daughter, kill your wife, enslave your neighbor, require a widow to choose between marrying her brother in law or being stoned to death... The bible is just a terrific model for a kind and productive society.

+1000. And yet they are still able to not only convince people this book of myths is true, but that it is a GOOD thing...marketing at its finest lol

But only because the book of myths promises people everlasting life, if they believe in the book.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

So some kinds of slavery are…defensible?

Oh yeah, all kinds of things are defensible if you take the bible as god's word and the earth's truth. Kill your daughter, kill your wife, enslave your neighbor, require a widow to choose between marrying her brother in law or being stoned to death... The bible is just a terrific model for a kind and productive society.

+1000. And yet they are still able to not only convince people this book of myths is true, but that it is a GOOD thing...marketing at its finest lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.