Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a 90 was always an A, it wouldn't standardize the amount of work necessary to get an A.

This. When I went to school, an A was outstanding. Now if students follow the scoring rubric they get an A. They mean different things now. There’s very little room for differentiation anymore.

Now if teachers had to include how many As, Bs, Cs, etc were earned in each class, that might give it some context.

Ok grandpa

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should get rid of them. My HS had a program called SWAS School Within a School.

In SWAS you join in ninth grade you make commitment to zero grades and not take SAT or ACT or take even AP classes. It forces colleges to 100 percent holistically review application.

A lot of kids went to IVY league each year

Isn't this why Saint Ann's gets 50--60% of kids into T20? No grades. Holistic report cards leads to holistic college apps.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

No, lol. They got in because they are highly hooked.

Not really. A few (URM or donor)....but truly a lot of niche humanities students....that can be a form of hooked. Esp in RD.

Not really. Did you see all the last names at St. Anns?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obvious that GPAs are not standard, and really can't be, but it's fascinating to me that they are still the best predictor of a student's success in college.

Actually, most colleges are saying the SAT is the best predictor.

I thought they only predicted freshman year grades in college. Anyway, my 1130 son is kicking ass in college. He has a 3.7 gpa because he finally no longer needs to take the math courses that tanked his grades. He is a writing tutor in the writing center at his college and has won some awards. I’m thankful that he didn’t need to submit that 1130. My own SAT score back in the Stone Age was 1010. I now have two Master’s degrees. My brother got a 1300+ and failed out of his freshman year. Test scores aren’t everything.

Anonymous wrote:Even if a 90 was always an A, it wouldn't standardize the amount of work necessary to get an A.

+1 There is no way to ensure that an A is "the same" everywhere without some sort of standardized curriculum and a national standardized test for the subject matter graded by independent graders using the same rubric (like the AP exams).

What about GPAs that are standardized based on:

extra time when not needed compared to kids who don't "need" extra time and don't get it

very liberal retake policies compared to schools that don't allow them

easy graders (project based learning) versus test givers with 3 questions on an exam (missing one is essentially an F)

So no, standardized GPAs solves little

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should get rid of them. My HS had a program called SWAS School Within a School.

In SWAS you join in ninth grade you make commitment to zero grades and not take SAT or ACT or take even AP classes. It forces colleges to 100 percent holistically review application.

A lot of kids went to IVY league each year

Isn't this why Saint Ann's gets 50--60% of kids into T20? No grades. Holistic report cards leads to holistic college apps.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

No, lol. They got in because they are highly hooked.

Not really. A few (URM or donor)....but truly a lot of niche humanities students....that can be a form of hooked. Esp in RD.

Anonymous wrote:Even if a 90 was always an A, it wouldn't standardize the amount of work necessary to get an A.

This. When I went to school, an A was outstanding. Now if students follow the scoring rubric they get an A. They mean different things now. There’s very little room for differentiation anymore.

Now if teachers had to include how many As, Bs, Cs, etc were earned in each class, that might give it some context.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do know that schools use Slate to auto-recalculate the GPA for only the classes they want, right?


https://technolutions.com/admissions?itemId=ygz90f7yhhcmc2hayamsb4kpvy301e

https://advisortraining.wayne.edu/remote_advising/slate_overview.pdf

Can someone do a deep dive on Slate and how it works, along with visuals? I will post on YCBK reader questions (can others do it as well) - because maybe they'll cover this in a podcast.

It's a big black box, and parents should have more visibility.

I think only the very big systems like the UC system uses slate to recalculate. I'm not sure why - maybe you have to pay for that feature? Or maybe it's not trustworthy?

Virtually every school uses an admissions management platform which has recalculation capabilities. It is just one part of shaping a class and managing yield.

If this is true, how do they recalculate for 100 point grading systems? Do they count 90+ an A? Some schools count it as an A- and others go to 89 for an A.

Anonymous wrote:Just use a standardized test, administered in school that you get only one shot at (with a makeup date for illness). I know I am describing UK A levels, but most countries do this. Test optional is crazy.

But why? If I'm UChicago, or Williams, or Princeton and I decide that I don't have to have test scores to make a decision at may school based on may priorities, why is it crazy? Aside from some arguments I have heard for MIT or Caltech for math scores, or like Dartmouth about standing out in school context, it seems there is room for decision without them at the vast majority of schools and they are fine with it (unless they eventually decide otherwise, as is their prerogative).

I mean yes, I've seen the data where a 1500 tracks with something like a 3.7 GPA and a 1400 with 3.5 (I don't recall the actuals), but, um...so?

I mean if it was that important they would make a 3.7 a requirement for the degree.

And even if test was mandatory everywhere, folks would be about something else. I don't like they use the test, the test cutoff isn't high enough, they should only only allow one sitting, they should only take the SAT, they should only take the ACT, and so on...

This thread started on not liking GPA structure. There will ALWAYS be something...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should get rid of them. My HS had a program called SWAS School Within a School.

In SWAS you join in ninth grade you make commitment to zero grades and not take SAT or ACT or take even AP classes. It forces colleges to 100 percent holistically review application.

A lot of kids went to IVY league each year

Isn't this why Saint Ann's gets 50--60% of kids into T20? No grades. Holistic report cards leads to holistic college apps.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

No, lol. They got in because they are highly hooked.

Anonymous wrote:I think they should get rid of them. My HS had a program called SWAS School Within a School.

In SWAS you join in ninth grade you make commitment to zero grades and not take SAT or ACT or take even AP classes. It forces colleges to 100 percent holistically review application.

A lot of kids went to IVY league each year

Isn't this why Saint Ann's gets 50--60% of kids into T20? No grades. Holistic report cards leads to holistic college apps.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

I think they should get rid of them. My HS had a program called SWAS School Within a School.

In SWAS you join in ninth grade you make commitment to zero grades and not take SAT or ACT or take even AP classes. It forces colleges to 100 percent holistically review application.

A lot of kids went to IVY league each year

And I think there should be a national education system. Like in France or Japan or many other countries. We’re all fourth graders are learning the same thing or all 12th graders are learning the same thing, not including extras or electives

The problem is, we don’t have a national education system and we have too much of state rights culture to ever think that that’s important. Also, we want to have control over our local schools and we base the funding on (local) property taxes.

We are a long way off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher bias and favoritism is another issue. A national exam system could avoid the bias and favoritism in grading.

This isn’t India. Thankfully.
- Indian-American mom of 2 in T10

UK, and most of European countries have that national exam.

What makes you think 2 Indians in T10 strengthen your arguments? It does not, the Indian kids in the US can barely compete with Indian immigrant H1B workers. Visit any one of FANNG you will see the majority of SWE there are Indian immigrants.

NP. First off, some students in the US can compete. This argument takes a small subset of individuals uniquely skilled for a small subset of employers in a particular industry. Working for a FAANG is hardly the measure of ability. It just so happens there is a particularly high level of interest in tech from a country 3-4x the size of the US population. You skim of the top X% in India and the same % in the US and there will be ore from India. That's just math

Believe me. Indian kids in the US, at least the majority of them, study either CS or premed.

Anonymous wrote:Just use a standardized test, administered in school that you get only one shot at (with a makeup date for illness). I know I am describing UK A levels, but most countries do this. Test optional is crazy.

And no more than 5% international undergraduates (if even that)....
Preference to US citizens only. Esp for oversubscribed majors? Better dorms and facilities for US citizens.