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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

Club swim isn't a team sport.

DP - unless a kid is swimming unaffiliated, it's not an entirely individual sport. It's not a team sport in the way that soccer or softball are, but club meets do keep track of team scores/results. So kids are scoring points for their team, even while they're swimming individual events.

As an aside, my kids' club absolutely makes them feel like they're on a team. They cheer for each other at meets, hang out, etc. That's a huge part of the fun.

Yes to all the above plus RELAYS in club meets (wish there were more relays). It isn’t soccer or basketball but there is some teamwork in club swim.

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say your kid ages up on their birthday, and their birthday is the day after Divisionals. They’re 8 at Divisionals, but 9 at All Stars. They’re the fastest 8 year old the county has ever seen in 25m freestyle. Are they allowed to swim at All Stars? Which freestyle event? What’s their seed time?

Now what happens if their birthday is July 1? Can they qualify for multiple freestyle events at All Stars?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somebody gets screwwed no matter when the age up date is. There is no compelling reason to change it.

And it *is* similar to club swimming where your age is your age on the first day of the meet. Just here your age is your age on the first day of the "season" which is (roughly) just June 1-July 15 for the vast majority.

Also changing it would make record keeping (pool, league etc) inconsistent over history.

I'm sorry, if your kid is born in May....too bad..so sad. The date has to be some date and there no reason now to change it.

Some kids (probably not 8U) might be motivated in that May bday situation knowing they need to go faster. Not 100% that May bday is bad for summer swimmers. Sometimes when things aren’t “fair,” kids step up (again prob not 8U).

And if May is bad then April is not much better, but March is close April & May so maybe March is bad too for summer swim

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

Club swim isn't a team sport.

DP - unless a kid is swimming unaffiliated, it's not an entirely individual sport. It's not a team sport in the way that soccer or softball are, but club meets do keep track of team scores/results. So kids are scoring points for their team, even while they're swimming individual events.

As an aside, my kids' club absolutely makes them feel like they're on a team. They cheer for each other at meets, hang out, etc. That's a huge part of the fun.

Anonymous wrote:Somebody gets screwwed no matter when the age up date is. There is no compelling reason to change it.

And it *is* similar to club swimming where your age is your age on the first day of the meet. Just here your age is your age on the first day of the "season" which is (roughly) just June 1-July 15 for the vast majority.

Also changing it would make record keeping (pool, league etc) inconsistent over history.

I'm sorry, if your kid is born in May....too bad..so sad. The date has to be some date and there no reason now to change it.

Anonymous wrote:How about a rule that coaches and assistant coaches can't swim for the team they're coaching?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

Club swim isn't a team sport.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

The birthday rule does disadvantage certain kids in club swim because the big championship meets are in March every year. So kids who age up right before that have to swim against kids in the championship meets almost two years older (or almost a year older in their interim year).

Right. But that disadvantage is based on the date of your birth, something that cannot be changed and is totally legitimate.....not a random arbitrary age up date picked by some person 25 years ago.

My DC has a late February birthday and they already know this is a huge disadvantage in club swim. It is what it is.

It's not some random date. It's the start of the season.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.