Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Funny you say this. My mom had a friend who was very educated and well to do who had two nightmares of kids. Horribly horribly behaved in every way. Now one is a neurosurgeon and the other is an anesthesiologist.

I have three siblings. When we were growing up, my dad was a very successful lawyer and my mom was very focused on it, but had her own full time career (with flexibility). We all did well in school, but one of my brothers was VERY mischievous and got into trouble in high school. Many teachers hated him and he was a difficult teenager to parent.

He ended graduating from a top university and is incredibly successful today - we’re all pretty high achieving but he is by far the most successful of us financially. He is in a senior leadership role at a top global financial firm.

One of my uncles was also a really difficult rebellious teen and ended up being a successful anesthesiologist.

NP. Can I ask what you attribute this to? Like how would you explain it? Risk taking tendency? Low self esteem? Or was he just too smart to connect with most kids when he was younger? When did he start to improve where people liked him and he started being more successful? (Especially your brother since I guess you know him best)

^ I’m curious because one of my kids is like this - very smart and a good people person when he wants to be but man he drives us crazy a lot of the time. Seems like ADHD but with more mischief. We’re hoping there’s hope for success!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Funny you say this. My mom had a friend who was very educated and well to do who had two nightmares of kids. Horribly horribly behaved in every way. Now one is a neurosurgeon and the other is an anesthesiologist.

I have three siblings. When we were growing up, my dad was a very successful lawyer and my mom was very focused on it, but had her own full time career (with flexibility). We all did well in school, but one of my brothers was VERY mischievous and got into trouble in high school. Many teachers hated him and he was a difficult teenager to parent.

He ended graduating from a top university and is incredibly successful today - we’re all pretty high achieving but he is by far the most successful of us financially. He is in a senior leadership role at a top global financial firm.

One of my uncles was also a really difficult rebellious teen and ended up being a successful anesthesiologist.

NP. Can I ask what you attribute this to? Like how would you explain it? Risk taking tendency? Low self esteem? Or was he just too smart to connect with most kids when he was younger? When did he start to improve where people liked him and he started being more successful? (Especially your brother since I guess you know him best)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial post talks about intelligence a lot, but then the follow up talks about behavior.

Those 2 things have little to do with one another.

+1, and also this whole thread is really about one interaction with one family, from which OP is making all kinds of leaps. Just say "I am disappointed my nice friends have bratty kids."

I have known the family for a decade. It is not one interaction. Our kids go to the same school.

I was appalled at their poor behavior. However, they are also low performers at school. They quit all their sports. They hate their instruments.

Assuming this is elementary…How do you know who is a “low performer” at school? And based upon what criteria exactly? A lot of kids don’t enjoy organized sports or just try out different rec sports at this age (and perhaps don’t return the next season). A lot of kids think practicing instrument is a drag and only do it because their parents make them (raising my own hand on this one…ended up playing in the HS band and enjoying it very much).

The kids are complete duds. I don’t know what to tell you. It is such a stark contrast so it seems even worse.

I’m fairly certain the dad does not like the kids and tries to work more to avoid them.

You calling ES kids “duds” says more about you than them.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the easy kids always grow into the most successful adults. They are often people pleasers who can't and don't think for themselves. They just do as they're told and then eventually flounder when they're young adults and don't know how to think.

My kids challenge absolutely everything and often melt down when frustrated, but I think that can come along with a high IQ and asynchronous development. I know I wasn't an easy kid, but that same tenacity that drove my mother nuts has also pushed me along in my career. Time will tell if they grow into successful adults or delinquents.

It can also be due to low IQ and emotional regulation issues.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

How do you know they are good parents? You can't tell by appearances. Superstars at wirk does nor make them superstar parents

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Funny you say this. My mom had a friend who was very educated and well to do who had two nightmares of kids. Horribly horribly behaved in every way. Now one is a neurosurgeon and the other is an anesthesiologist.

I have three siblings. When we were growing up, my dad was a very successful lawyer and my mom was very focused on it, but had her own full time career (with flexibility). We all did well in school, but one of my brothers was VERY mischievous and got into trouble in high school. Many teachers hated him and he was a difficult teenager to parent.

He ended graduating from a top university and is incredibly successful today - we’re all pretty high achieving but he is by far the most successful of us financially. He is in a senior leadership role at a top global financial firm.

One of my uncles was also a really difficult rebellious teen and ended up being a successful anesthesiologist.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Funny you say this. My mom had a friend who was very educated and well to do who had two nightmares of kids. Horribly horribly behaved in every way. Now one is a neurosurgeon and the other is an anesthesiologist.

Just my 2 cents: childhood was very different in the 80s and 90s than today. I grew up in the Maryland suburbs and the neighborhood raised you as much as your parents did. If you didn’t want to be unbearably bored you had to make friends which meant you had to learn to get along, how to pitch in and how to treat and speak to people. Now with screens these kids will never get bored and never learn to socialize. So parents have to be intentional and forceful in providing spaces for play. The parents I know whose kids are duds seem like they don’t understand that what was once automatic now must be planned and executed.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are both extremely anxious overachievers from fairly dysfunctional homes. Our kids have so much anxiety (likely inherited) that it makes it difficult for them to handle life’s stressors. They have struggled socially, academically etc.

I wonder if they would have done better if both my husband and I had sought help for our anxiety earlier. It’s hard to conceptualize of a whole family though where everyone is on antidepressants, Zoloft etc. Sometimes we think of ourselves as kind of a generic cocktail that probably shouldn’t have been mixed.

Not sure if OP would think of me as accomplished (very fancy degrees but very mommy tracked job) but both my kids are in therapy. My husband and I have been done it in the past, me several times. We have had similar conversations about the rough genetic hand we dealt our kids anxiety wise! But aside from some short periods of time where my kids were disasters (not the same time, thankfully) they seem to be ok. We value mental health very highly in our house and try to be very open about our own struggles. It’s funny, now my older one is doing so well she’s mentioned therapy and got some funny looks -I am sure there are people who think I am insane. But we do it because we need it to be ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Many of my accomplished friends don't want their kuds to chase success. They feel like they had to work hard but if they can spare their kids the struggle and find an easy life, their hard work paid off.

I know a lot of people who feel differently. If your child has been given lots of advantageous they should be able to achieve success much more easily.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Many of my accomplished friends don't want their kuds to chase success. They feel like they had to work hard but if they can spare their kids the struggle and find an easy life, their hard work paid off.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

My brother is a certified genius who has made an enormous fortune using his brains. He’s also a very difficult person to get along with and socially inept in many situations. His wife is a saint. Their kids are normal, happy and well-adjusted. Can’t put a price on that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The richer the family, the more likely the kids are on screens too much and on social media which sucks the life, intelligence, creativity right out of you. The rich families at our school have dedicated ipads for each kid and at age 10 they get a smartphone. I think it's kind of disgusting.

This isn't true. Statistically lower parental income and education levels correlate with more screen time usage by kids.

https://www.the74million.org/children-from-low-income-less-educated-families-spend-nearly-twice-as-much-time-on-screens/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9107378/

And higher incomes correlate with higher intelligence and better outcomes. People don't want to know how much of life is tied up in the DNA you give your kids. As for successful people with unsuccessful kids, I wonder if some people just don't match well. For instance, I've long thought having a "spark" was nature's way of telling you that the other person is a good match. Well, the opposite could also be true.

It’s not just IQ that’s tied in the DNA. It’s artistry in dancing, painting, creating things in general. It’s the ability to excel at singing, playing instruments. It’s athletics.

But nothing is 100% tied to DNA. Kids with average IQs and high IQs can both be successful in school. Most kids don’t even know their IQ but the kids with high IQ and the necessary outside support will be able to succeed in fields that would be out of reach for kids with lower IQs.

DNA is key to achieve being a top athlete but that’s only one aspect. Family support, good coaches are also key.

Genetics are fascinating but what a process just to identify one gene. In my family looking at three generations not one of us can carry a tune. We have pro athletes, if not pro most of us were on varsity teams without much effort. We have career musicians, dancers and painters. What we don’t have are any academic standouts. Most of us went to colleges that rank somewhere in the middle. A lot of hard workers and it’s interesting to see how similar our strengths and weaknesses are.

Anonymous wrote:I expect kindness from my kid, but I'm not pushing my kid in academics and extracurriculars the way I was pushed. And she isn't hungry like I was, because she has more means and opportunities.
Basically I'm aiming for better mental health rather than achievement.

Hear hear. Trying to avoid them having major anxiety disorders connected to pressure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Regression to the mean

+1. Most people aren't impressive. A kid with impressive parents might be a bit more likely to be impressive, but most of them are going to be average because most people are average.