Anonymous
07/09/2025 11:26
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Yes indeed. REUs preferentially favor students from Primarily Undergraduate Institutions for a reason(LACs). Unfortunately with funding cuts this year many REUs even top ones at Chicago, ivies, etc were canceled. Many of these same schools allowed their own students to fill the research spots, paid them from other sources and did not cover housing as they would have for official REU program. While LAC students can do research with a LAC professor it is an entirely different experience to be in a lab with a PI (ie head professor), a couple of post docs and grad students, with multiple projects going on, undergrads can get publishable data and experience assisting with the writing of the papers very quickly. That scale of research does not exist at LACs or non-R1s.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:52
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Are we ranking grad schools? Start a new thread.
Are you now going to combat the claim that one of LAC’s most attractive qualities is getting into grad school? You need research in undergrad to get into a good grad school.
You have already shown your ignorance; no need to double down on it.
What?! You need research to get into grad school. If you can’t agree on that, you’re not only being disingenuous but wrong.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:50
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Are we ranking grad schools? Start a new thread.
Are you now going to combat the claim that one of LAC’s most attractive qualities is getting into grad school? You need research in undergrad to get into a good grad school.
You have already shown your ignorance; no need to double down on it.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:46
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Are we ranking grad schools? Start a new thread.
Are you now going to combat the claim that one of LAC’s most attractive qualities is getting into grad school? You need research in undergrad to get into a good grad school.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:45
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Are we ranking grad schools? Start a new thread.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:43
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
R1s have better research than LACs. That is a fact of life. If r1 institutions shut down their REUs today, most lac grads would have near 0 opportunities in their field of interest. LACs rely on these research institutions for their kids to get into grad school. Open up a bit more.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:41
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Thanks for showing your SLAC ignorance. Your “research” point especially does not hold water and, upon examination, would make the opposite point you are trying to make.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:39
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
What’s the difference between (Williams and Amherst) and (Swarthmore and Pomona) everyone makes this distinction, but as someone who isn’t in the LAC space, they’re effectively the same school and the order seems to be more Williams Pomona Amherst Swat in terms of popularity and opportunities.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:36
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
Look I am a big LAC fan and had multiple W and A peers at my T5 med school, in addition to many T10 kids. W and A prepare exceptionally well. But overall considering everything involved in deciding the top TEN universities, there are at least 10 if not 12-15 that outshine W and A. The experience of having the top research/labs available to every undergrad who wants it, as well as the highest level of peers at the top universities, and the smaller classes at the ivy-private types, W and A are not structured to have all of that. Just like UCB cannot have all of it: it is too big and there are too many undergrads competing for labs and even library space. CalTEch is small true but has the research opportunities of the ivy/elite.
The top 10 universities are:
Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Caltech
Johns Hopkins*
*The debate is really over the 10th spot: Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern, or maybe Cornell or Brown.
W and A are amazing schools but not T10 universities. Its apples and oranges. W and A are 100% the best Oranges.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:30
Subject: What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)
What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.
You have no experience with Williams.
Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.
What? No you’re wrong. Harvard has a much better “residential focus” than Williams. Just having a few dorms on campus doesn’t make your housing any special. You think the residential colleges at Yale are being trounced by Williams college? Please!
You have more opportunities at ivy, including working with people from those graduate institutions that Williams grads cling to for approval. My first year Yale DD is currently working in a lab by a well known neuroscience researcher, because those opportunities are easy to come by; meanwhile, a Williams student has to find and place into a very competitive REU just to get the same opportunity. Every rec letter DD will get is from a well known researcher, meanwhile, Williams grads have to outsource from REUs to get the same result.
+1, it’s almost always better to go to an ivy unless DC has an anxiety disorder
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:30
Subject: What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)
What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.
You have no experience with Williams.
Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.
Someone who has obviously never attended an ivy institution.
Yale, Brown, and Dartmouth are the only comparable ones. Cornell, Columbia, and UPenn especially are far from it.
Yale Harvard Princeton Brown and Dartmouth are beyond comparable.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:29
Subject: Re:What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…
Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.
IYKYK. Sorry you are not part of the club. Have fun with your international grad school rankings.
Lmao, sure- have fun with…that? You LAC parents are actual jokes.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:26
Subject: What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)
What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.
You have no experience with Williams.
Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.
Someone who has obviously never attended an ivy institution.
Yale, Brown, and Dartmouth are the only comparable ones. Cornell, Columbia, and UPenn especially are far from it.
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:23
Subject: What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cornell, Cal and Michigan should be included in the top 10. These schools offer academic breadth along with top ranked programs. Cornell, for example, provides top-tier programs across engineering, business, agriculture, arts and sciences, along specialized schools like hotel management and ILR. Cal and Michigan similarly offerstop engineering, business, social sciences, and humanities.
A student at Williams or Amherst cannot pursue undergraduate engineering, business, agriculture, or many professional programs. This limitation, while intentional, makes these institutions unsuitable for a general top 10 ranking that should reflect the full spectrum of undergraduate educational opportunity reflect current educational trends.
You can’t do agriculture at almost any top school. Elite colleges aren’t in the business of making laborers.
truth
Anonymous
07/09/2025 10:22
Subject: What schools are T-10?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HYPSM
Penn, Columbia, Brown, Duke, Caltech
No idea why people are discussing Rice, Williams, or Chicago
Chicago makes perfect sense. It is a highly cerebral place with awesome post grad success. Definitely deserves to be in the conversation. Rice is forgettable, and Williams? not even sure I know where or what it is.
+1. Chicago has been top for a long time. It’s why in their IPEDS comparison groups, Harvard lists only Duke, Hopkins, MIT, Stanford, and Chicago, and Yale lists only MIT, Stanford, and Chicago as non-Ivy peers.
+1